Author Topic: check your engine mounts people (Read 11326 times)

rathies · « **on:** Nov 22, 2006, 09:38AM »

my car has been vibrating like shit lately, clunking during each shift and shifting early due to torque loss. Its auto btw.
Had a look at my left hand mount, attached to the gearbox and it was bent almost 45 degrees. Turns out the mounted wasn't stuffed upon closer inspection.
There are 2 bolts that hold it onto the gearbox, 1 was missing and 1 was pretty lose. So if your car is vibrating and clunking I strongly advise you to have a look. All my problems are fixed now, something so simple made the car run like arse.

dave-trx · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 22, 2006, 11:13AM »

I have done all my engine mounts on the TRX, cost a $500-$600 money spent. When the right engine mount was stuffed, that caused the vibration.

Scradley · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 22, 2006, 08:55PM »

yeah i managed to track down all original engine mounts, new from repco i think, bit costly after a while but anyway and i stuffed some silastic or windscreen sealant in them to make them a bit stuffer but my car still throbs when i shift, although i think the clutch could also be slamming in, last time i changed the clutch plate i was running on metal to metal, fun stuff, smells good too. The engine mount on the front, the underside, never seems to sit right, with the weight of the engine rmoved from it or with it on it it seems to be always twisted maybe i should put some more sealant in it. Make sure when you order the left hand side one that you get the correct one, ie auto, manual as the holes are in different spots, obviously.

mpot · « **Reply #3 on:** Nov 22, 2006, 09:32PM »

Quote from: Scradley on Nov 22, 2006, 08:55PM

yeah i managed to track down all original engine mounts, new from repco i think, bit costly after a while but anyway and i stuffed some silastic or windscreen sealant in them to make them a bit stuffer but my car still throbs when i shift...

I went through about 5 rear engine mounts in 7 years. I tried the sikaflex trick, but it didn't really help.
I eventually had a mount cast in polyurethane, with very good results (and it's cheaper than a genuine mount from Nissan).

For more details and pics of the mount, have a look at my page on custom polyurethane engine mounts.

Cheers,
Martin.

omad · « **Reply #4 on:** Nov 23, 2006, 02:24AM »

I know it's a different car, but my camira use to cut through engine mounts like butter. It even broke a urethane replacement mount from repco. I ended up filling all the busted mounts (the 3rd time around) with sikaflex 252. This stuff is about $20 a tube from bunnings, but it damn well works. Had more engine vibration in the car, but the engine stayed in place all right!

Febrile · « **Reply #5 on:** Nov 25, 2006, 05:21PM »

Quote from: mpot on Nov 22, 2006, 09:32PM

I went through about 5 rear engine mounts in 7 years. I tried the sikaflex trick, but it didn't really help.
I eventually had a mount cast in polyurethane, with very good results (and it's cheaper than a genuine mount from Nissan).

For more details and pics of the mount, have a look at my page on custom polyurethane engine mounts.

Cheers,
Martin.

Hey, this is great stuff. I'm in Armadale too, so that's super handy. Though I don't think my mounts are stuffed (hard to tell without taking them out of the car), I might look at doing this some time.

mpot · « **Reply #6 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 10:49PM »

Quote from: Narxysus on Nov 25, 2006, 05:21PM

Though I don't think my mounts are stuffed (hard to tell without taking them out of the car), I might look at doing this some time.

You should be able to check out the bottom rear mount if you take a look at it from underneath the car (preferably with the car on ramps, so you can get underneath).

Cheers,
Martin.

Jono · « **Reply #7 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 12:26AM »

Check for cracks in the rubber, or if the mounts are sagging they're stuffed.

krayzie · « **Reply #8 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 11:41AM »

Same Deal, my engine mount bracket snapped too after i had an engine replaced. Seems the mechanic either skipped a bolt or didnt tighten them. I thought i dropped a gearbox because the engine sat that far down that i couldnt select 2nd or 4th (manual). I welded the first one up but because one of the bolts snapped off in the gearbox housing i had to realy on that one bolt and weld. After 2 months that one snapped when i was teaching my girlfriend how to drive lol. I had to source another one from the reckers wich i had to pull out myself because they wouldnt (u do not want to do this). Still missing that one bolt but is lasting so far. Is rough though. Would like to know if anyone else is having problems with this bracket and how they fixed it.

Jono · « **Reply #9 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 08:33PM »

Invest $20 in an ezy-out bolt extractor and get the old bolt out, then find new bolt for it.

eurisko · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 9, 2006, 02:13PM »

I know its an old post, but better than making a new one.

Any idea of how good sikaflex is compared to urethane moulding like Martin has done? Both my front and rear mount are completely busted (the front so much so, the rubber fell out when i touched it!!) and i need them repaired.

Im looking at casting them, but if sikaflex is a viable option, that lasts just as long, or longer... why not....

Any suggestions?

chr1S · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 9, 2006, 04:57PM »

mine fell out too

i think its normal heh

Scradley · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 9, 2006, 09:58PM »

i went through two sets of nissan mounts in as many years so the third time lucky i added some sikaflex, i used the black windscreen sealant as it was recomended by a friend, i think it has higher heat capabilities and it bends easier i think. I regret it now, but i should have saved the old mounts, because if these ones fail then its off to the wreckers to get an old set and then send off to get remoulded but anyway i can't be without a car too long and there aint too many i can borrow. So don't throw the old shitty ones away, and if you have a 2L manual corsair, 90 model there are 2 extra rubber thingiemejigs one either side, if they are stuffed don't worry, 13 bucks each i think i got them for from Nissan, still in the pack. God only knows how long they'd been sitting on the shelf for though.

omad · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 03:29AM »

Quote from: eurisko on Dec 9, 2006, 02:13PM

I know its an old post, but better than making a new one.

Any idea of how good sikaflex is compared to urethane moulding like Martin has done? Both my front and rear mount are completely busted (the front so much so, the rubber fell out when i touched it!!) and i need them repaired.

Im looking at casting them, but if sikaflex is a viable option, that lasts just as long, or longer... why not....

Any suggestions?

If the rubber insides fell out, I'd probably be looking at casting. However if it fell out because it's cracked and the rubber is still holding on the edges and just separated from the inside, give the sikaflex a go. I completely filled the mounts I had and it worked nicely. I don't know what other people are using, but I think that 252 is pretty much the most hardcore stuff you can use. They had a little booklet/chart in bunnings that I used to choose. Sold the car about a year later and it was still good, the only adverse effect being the engine vibrations.

borgtj · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 03:40AM »

I cut pieces of steel, attached them to the mounts and welded the centers to the steel-steel to mount body,never will break,and I don't care about vibrations at idle.

KNG P1N · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 12, 2006, 08:11AM »

you could spend 500 od dollars to buy new engine mounts...or you could buy the rubber insterts themselves for $40..........worked for me..lasted almost 12months, dont look like breakin

eurisko · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 12, 2006, 09:17AM »

Well, my engine will be under alot more stress than the average ca20, and i dont want to have to replace them every 6months.

Can you sikaflex cast your own mounts? As in, remove all rubber, place the centre guide, and fill the void with sikaflex?

Scradley · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 13, 2006, 02:46PM »

i don't see why not, i think you will need some kind of flat section on one side though to hold the sikaflex in while it is still wet. A guy i know said he used some acrylic, rather thick acrylic as in the plastic not the paint and cut them to the same shape as an engine mount and used it and it works fine.

KNG P1N · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 17, 2006, 08:32PM »

no sikaflex will not work. there should be a few people on this forum that will tell you why...

eurisko: i was refering to a ka24e that gets the arse flogged out of it. you shouldnt have to be replacing engine mounts every 6 months, if you are, you have problems

eurisko · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 17, 2006, 09:06PM »

Quote from: eurisko on Dec 12, 2006, 09:17AM

Well, my engine will be under alot more stress than the average ca20

I think i want to emphasise this point. My engine in fully worked form should be producing more than double stock power, easily. So i need something thats stronger than factory specifications.

From what ive heard from in this thread right now, there are only positives from sikaflex. Can you expand on why you think it doesnt work KNG P1N?

rathies · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 30, 2006, 10:49AM »

I believe the sikaflex falls out. Find yourself a polyurethane place and get a quote. mpot had his (my new) rear mount done for $60, cheaper than buying a new one.

Kranzy · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 30, 2006, 09:07PM »

I packed mine full of polyurathane i bought from bunnings. Not the stiffest stuff but it went into a near new mount so all im hoping for is to make it a bit stronger than stock.

My old mount was rooted and the new one made the world of difference.

KNG P1N · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 1, 2007, 10:14AM »

eurisko: go for you life and use sikaflex, but dont say i told ya so.
a. its a glue, not a filler
b. it hasnt got the density, especially when its just piled up like that
c. it hasnt got the strength....car manufacturers use VOLCANISED RUBBER for a reason........

omad · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 02:47AM »

Car manufacturers use rubber for a reason. It's cheap, and it dampens engine vibrations. I don't know what sikaflex you've been using, but the 252 I used was (I think) urethane based and a whole lot stronger and more rigid than the stupid rubber mounts. The resulting mounts were a lot better and lasted longer than any rubber mounts I'd had in the car before.

KNG P1N · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 09:25AM »

hahaha vulcanised rubber cheap

i think not
all as you need it one tiny air bubble when you set em with sika and the mount can collapse
its a poor mans solution to forking out money....

eurisko · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 10:22AM »

Quote from: KNG P1N on Jan 5, 2007, 09:25AM

hahaha vulcanised rubber cheap i think not
all as you need it one tiny air bubble when you set em with sika and the mount can collapse
its a poor mans solution to forking out money....

I dont know where your getting your rubber from, but the reason they use vulcanised rubber is because it IS cheap. Vulcanised rubber doesnt degrade as quickly as natural rubber (which will deteriorate within a few days), and its hardness depends on the amount of sulfur used in the process. Sikaflex is Polyurethane, and fully synthetic. Its density depends purely on the chemical combination used.

Regardless of whether it is a glue or not, the end result is the same. It is still a polyurethane compound, and has the same properties as polyurethane (including heat and chemical resistance, density, stiffness and strength).

And how can an air bubble affect the structural integrity of the mount? Sickaflex is flexible, not solid. If it was completley solid, your point would be valid... but this compound (going by the tech sheet http://www.sika.com.au/home/cmi/sikainside/sika_transport/intro/products/pdfdatasheets/SIKAFLEX252.pdf) is elastic, and is also meant to fill gaps.

It seems to me that your the only one who doesnt like sikaflex mate... and your not very convincing of your arguments either. Have you used sikaflex in any of your mounts? Or have you just been told not to use it by a word of mouth?

KNG P1N · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 10:57AM »

actually im not the only one that dislikes sikaflex. go to any motorsport event and you will be laughed at. and yes i have used sikaflex. not on my car, but my family has been involved in motor racing for longer than you have been alive, and it was tried...and quickly changed. if any officals catch wind that your using them, you cant compete (well at the qld raceway sprint series anyway). to boot, i actually work as a rep part time now (i used to work for bunnings..got chatty with a rep company), one of the products i supply, happens to be sikaflex. i rang sikaflex and asked them if it was suitable and i got several answers of no, no and f u c k no. dont you think that if it was suitable, they would advertise this as one of its features? if you want, when i go to work on monday, i will get a formal letter from sikaflex stating why/if its suitable to be used as engine mounts.
would you be happy then?

eurisko · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 11:10AM »

Its not the point of making me happy, its the point of getting the correct information. Some products designed for a specific purpose can sometimes be used in places noone ever imagined. Thats the whole point of innovation.

Regardless, if you can get confirmation from sikaflex that its not suitable, that would be awsome. That would stop this hypothesising by people such as myself, who havent had the opportunity to use them, but have experince in the engineering field.

On another point, being laughed at doesnt mean shit. It only means that you are doing something thats either completely ridiculous, or something so extreme that noone will try it. People will laugh at me when i say im building a CA20DET engine.

That is until they lose to it.

KNG P1N · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 11:46AM »

basically i see it like this dude. nothing personal against you, i mean i admire the fact that your goin to have a dig at modding the ca20,but you havent used sikaflex for mounts...your hypothesising based on information you have sort. your getting opinions from 17-18 year old kids saying "yea they work well" and they have dick all experience or knoledge. im getting my arguments from the manufacturer of the product, my father-in-law who is in his 50's, been working on cars and using the product daily, restoring, building, and racing cars for 30+ years. not to mention his mate who is an engineer and has just finished building a 10 second mini cooper, both of which have tested and tryed sikaflex mounts, not to mention many othe things

i'l get the letter to lay the argument to rest, because im over wasting my time trying to help you guys.
the end

omad · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 5, 2007, 12:51PM »

Right. Be a bit more pig-headed? I'm 24, AND I've used sikaflex. And I ask again, WHAT sikaflex have you used??

If there was ever a car that rips the shit ouf of mounts, a holden camira would be it. Even the auto models would tear through their mounts. Hell, I had a full set of new mounts including a urethane (or the like) made more solid mount on the one which was most common for breaking. Approx 1.5 years later (this being the 3rd set of mounts I'd been through) they were all broken or cracking. Even the stronger one was ripped to shreds.

So, Instead of doing the same thing over again, I used Sikaflex 252 (the strongest & most rigid accroding to the booklet at the time) at about $20 a pop. They stopped all the engine movement and were so much stronger and more rigid than any of the ones I'd used before. This was also testified by the amount of vibrations in the car.

A year or so later when I sold the car, they were just as good as when I'd put them in. I can't deny that it's a poor man's solution (or one that's come to his wits end replacing mounts) but I can attest that it works.

I still have the ripped-out urethane mount and an auto mount that I accidentally ended up with from the wreckers when I didn't ask them if the donor was an auto or manual. If I can figure out a way of putting some noticeable stress on the mount, I'll stick up an image of it.

Edit: and just because the manufacturer of a product won't back the use of their product in a different way, doesn't mean it won't work. "Hey Nissan, do you support the use of turbo's on your N/A KA24 Pintaras?"