Buying a U12 Wreck... What to look for engine wise?

[MAG86]

Hi everyone....

My car is needing some mechanical work really soon, timing chain and head gasket for starters. need new exhaust menifold studs too.... it has 214,000 km, and is getting on a bit....

I am looking at an auto pintara 'T' wreck this weekend at a mates place, it has 155,000km and i was thinking of getting it to swap my engine 214km engine and replaceing it with this 155km engine... I can get the whole wreck for $400. i could pert it out when i pull out the bits i need.

While the 155km engine is out i am probably going to replace the timing chain, all the gaskets, plug in one of the 3 sets of injectors i have.... full oil flush, degrease and paint the rocker cover  , coolant flush, swap any of my parts that are better

I was also thinging of a U13 de engine, but they are too hard to find..... the distributer alone is $400

SO
Can anyone give me some pointers on what to look for on this possible replacement engine?
it runs, and theres no timing chain rattle,
What should i look for? Dad says look under the oil filler cap for built up gunk, radiator for rust, leaks and shit like that....

ANy tips?
Thanks in advanced, hopefully i can get this all sorted out soon eh!

AND does anyone in Victoria have a hoist i can borrof for a few weeks??

[MAG86]

cmon i need to know... i have no access to intrawebz on the weekend...
and sunday is taken up with a cruise!

2 hours til i log off... 

 ;DPLEASE HELP

[Chadza]

One question i have for you-

if you are going to go through all the effort (transportation) of a complete wreck- why not spend that money on reconditioning your currant engine?

It would make sense if the wrecked car had say sub-100,00km's, but once you get over the 150,000km mark then most engines are the same (pretty tired). If you are just going to replace the parts in the 'new' engine...why not just spend that money on your currant engine!?

This wreck may only have 155,000km's on it, but the car may have been absolutely flogged and has the equivalent of 255,000km's. why not just stick with the car you have and the engine you have- spend that $400 + on parts for your currant engine and see how it goes?

my 2c

[xxxx]

look at the dipstick,

look particularly for discouloured or milky oil
listen for all engine noises
start the engine numerous times listen, particularly for rattles
take the rocker cover off, look at the timing chain, valve springs
also do a compression test, 8.6:1 if i remember?? (dont quote me)


EDIT: KA24e
Compression Pressure:
Standard- 1206kPa
Minimum- 1010kPa
Differential limit between cylinders- 98kPa
Static Compression ratio- 8.6:1

thats what i was looking for

[chr1S]

lol dude just rebuild ur engine and save the cash.. you don't need a wreck if it's just your engine..

[dave-trx]

Just look for T88-34D hanging off the exhaust manifold, then you know its a real bargin.

[MAG86]

I checked it out and it goes pretty good, and the owner bought it brand new, from nissan showroom in 1993, and he has a full service history, sice 93 to present.
the car has been t-boned and the whole right side is fukt, but the res is in pretty good nick, easy source of parts for you  guys,

look, the whole figgin wreck is $400. all i want is the engine, and the box for a spare. 
and if i do a rebuild of my existing engine? who much that will set me back... ALOT

timing chain
head gasket
sum seal
main seal
head shaved and crack tested

now how much do you reckon that will cost, versus a $400 engine that has nothing wrong with it,
a bit of mucking around cleaning it up... and a swap over..... sound easier than a rebuild,

What would a rebuild involve anyway? cos i think a rebuild would last longer, and i would be more at ease about it too, knowing its not gonna be all dodgey and shit....

[Chadza]

mate...how easy do you think "an engine swap" is?

There isn't 4 quick release engine mounts and the engine just miraculously pops out and you can pop the new one back in!

Think about the labour costs for changing over an engine.....or if you are going to do it yourself, think about how long and how many parts you are going to have to take off to remove the engine from the car and place the new engine it.

And the engine you will be getting in the wreck won't be brand new...its got about 50,000km left in it before it will get to the same stage that your is in...it may even need things doing to it now which you have already done to your engine.

I have just replaced my timing chain myself (with the help of a mechanic mate with car lifter and all the tools), and it was enough effort to remove the things needed to get to the timing chain without having to remove the whole bloody engine!!

Most of those things on your list can be achieved by just doing the timing chain. You need pretty much everything unbolted from the engine bar the water pump on the right hand side of the engine to get to the timing case. Which means you can do the following things while you are doing the chain itself-

clean out the sump,
change the front crankshaft oil seal
change the timing chain, all guides and tensioner
Re-seal the timing cover and sump (only liquid gasket....so you don't need special gaskets)

and there is everything bar the head- which isn't overly difficult to remove- and you don't need a engine crane to do any off the above!! Just a decent car lifter/ big ramp/car pit.

As for cost: The parts for all of the above things worked out to be $250 from repco. (full timing kit and gaskets). This is including oil and coolant! If you can do it yourself you will save heaps. If you can't do it yourself...well you are going to have to pay labour for the engine swap anyway so why not just fix up your current one!?

It all comes back to the hassle of having a wreck around the place. People DO NOT WANT to pay much money at all for parts- you will find this out quickly.


end of essay:

basically, if I was you I'd just rebuild.

[MAG86]

i completely agree.... i reckon the wreck could be a good engine to rebuild, but i dont need 2 engines in bits all over the place eh!

ive been thinking about it all day.... i just dont have access to much tool wise... if there was a way i could do it myself i would...

my cousin has a workshop so im gonna  ask him if i could use all his gear for a while... but i will only be able to work on it during the weekends and i will need transport to his shop too....
did you un bolt mounts and lower the timing chain side of the engine ? is it overly difficult to do ( i mean possible for 1 dude with a box of tools)

i even got some quotes today on a HM GEM full reco engine, the best i got was $2900 installed, drive in drive out, (exchange...)
with 3 year unlimited km warranty....
that would mean if i pay all that extra now, i wont need to pay for shit for the next 3 years (only servicing...).... very tempting, it would run like new! and i wouldnt be worrying about leaking rings or noisy bearings, or all the leaking oil.....

i wish i could just write a cheque and give it to a workshop for a few days, and then pigs might fly too....

[Chadza]

did you un bolt mounts and lower the timing chain side of the engine ? is it overly difficult to do ( i mean possible for 1 dude with a box of tools)

Possible...but difficult. We had a full car lifter and a trolly jack with a plank of wood supporting the engine. We completely removed the RHS engine mount and just raised and lowered the car with the lifter, lifting the engine with the jack if we needed to. You WILL NOT get the timing cover out without lowering the engine....physicaly impossibility.

The main problems we encountered were getting the sump off (needed to remove crossmember, then re-install to remove RHS mount).

Really a 2 man job....but is possible to do it over 2 days I'd say 1 man. If you cant get hold of a car lifter.....easiest other way is to remove engine and do it all while out of the car.

and $2900....you may as well get bent over and slapped if you are willing to pay that for a ka24.

[dave-trx]

Mate when it comes to engine's as long as you understand what pieces do what you shouldn't have a problem. Chad has summed it up pretty well. I haven't had to do the timing chain on my TRX yet. Its off the road at the moment getting repaired after being involved in a low speed crash. Mine has done in excess of 270 000km's + 20 000-30 000km's from when the odometer stop for about 1.5 - 2 years. So roughly 290 000 - 300 000km's. Has a quick rattle when cold for a second then sounds normal when the oil pressure is up.

I agree with chad, timing belts and chains are easiest done with the engine out of the car, unless its a G203 charade which are awesome to work on.

[MAG86]

ok im looking into doing it at a mates garage, and replaceing a few bits while its out....

Can i have suggestiond on what to replace?
all the gaskets and seals for sure,

while the head is off getting checked we are probably going to port it out a bit.... and maybe an antrx cam...
ive read all the posts and got confused, different ginds, and the differeince between a egrind and a billet all confuses me... and end cap machining???

and a stage 2 chip!

SO basically it will be out for a while, a light rebuild i guess... if theres too much damage then i guess i will be getting a few more new parts, or getting the wrecked pinta engine and rebuilding that....

[chr1S]

a regrind uses your current camshaft and they just re grind it... as in, grind it to alter the lift/duration etc.. With a billet cam, it's basically a solid bar of some sort of alloy and they grind it to spec.

[Chadza]

to save me and others writing more essays. All the questions in your latest post have been covered on antrx.

Do a comprehensive search ( ie more than just typing a word into the search engine) around the site....in particular the antrx tech section, and faq, and you will find a crap load of info about everything from cams, to rebuilds to heads to head gaskets.

all been covered mate