Author Topic: Australians, Drugs, and the Rest Of The World  (Read 14034 times)

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Offline Febrile

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Australians, Drugs, and the Rest Of The World
« on: May 27, 2005, 06:21PM »
EDIT: I changed the title of this thread, to save making more on on a similar topic

Schapelle Corby has been found guilty.

Here.

This sucks in so many ways.  Flame me all you want, I'm never going back to Indonesia.
« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2005, 11:00PM by Narxysus »
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2005, 07:58PM »
You know what I find most perplexing about this?

1 person + 4.1kg of marijuana = 20 years in prison

as compared to

6 billion people on the planet + 5.5 trillion tobacco cigarettes produced every year = completely legal.

Tobacco and marijuana arguably have the same absolute effect on society (per cigaratte), and yet...

WHO Tobacco fact sheet
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Offline Jtas

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2005, 08:12PM »
Whether she is guilty or not, 20 years in jail for 4kg of marijuana is just fucked!
especially when you consider what the bali bombers got, seems to me that the judges are only interested in protecting their mates.


Why do Australians go to bali anyway? it looks like a shithole from what I've seen on TV etc. not that TV gives you a good idea, I studied Indonesian in high school (not by choice) and nothing I saw/learnt would make me want to go

..  someone enlighten me..

Offline Colby

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2005, 08:17PM »
You know what i find wrong about it...

4kg dope = 20 years
Blow up a whole nightclub full of people with a bomb = 2years

Go figure that one!!!

Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2005, 08:24PM »
Why do Australians go to bali anyway? it looks like a shithole from what I've seen on TV etc. not that TV gives you a good idea, I studied Indonesian in high school (not by choice) and nothing I saw/learnt would make me want to go

I've been, and I didn't enjoy it.  This was when I was younger, too, so I was still unbiased back then.  It's just somewhere less developed than here, but because it's such a tourist spot, they have the same (or similar) capitalist mentality as we do; that's hardly their fault, but it sure makes for an unpleasant vacation when you walk down the street and get harassed to purchase stuff anywhere you go.  Ridiculously high prices to start with (haggling, the pain in the arse that it is, is expected), and all you get is shit.  The best stuff I got from Bali?  A backpack and shoes that I bought from a large supermarket.  I took $250 with me, spent it all, and thoroughly regretted it.

Admittedly, it does have some nice scenic areas, but then, what country doesn't?
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2005, 08:43PM »
It's stupid.. I think she was innocent.

How can they use 20 years of inprisonment against her with hardly any proof it was her..

stupid IMO. gg law system. that 1 judge fukd it up for her
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2005, 08:47PM »
Also, I would like to mention:

I have never been exposed to illicit drugs of any sort here in Australia, in all my life.  Never had them, because I've never had access to them.

However, during my one week stay in Bali (this was when I was about 16), I was offered a sachet of marijuana whilst walking down the street, by a Balinese person.

Apparently, their drug laws are working.

 :P
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Offline Budgie

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2005, 09:41PM »
Fuck Corby and fuck all of this shit.

I'm so damn sick of hearing about it all.

I have no intention of adding anything intelligent to this conversation, so I won't.  I will say only this.

I am leaving for bali with 6 other people on June the 26th.  I'm staying in a four star hotel, on the fourth floor (two rooms between us all) I intend to spend most of my time in the sun with my girlfriend and mates drinking a cold one and kicking back.  We will go do all the normal holiday things people do, see the sights, go do all the activities and what not.  Only one of the people I'm going with has been to Bali before, hes been 5 times.  He has a ball each time.

I'm glad she got put in jail, at least now any dickheads will think twice about smuggling anything into or out of denpasar international...

EDIT- Oh and I had plane tickets bought before ANY of this stuff erupted in the media.  Did everyone here 'hate indonesia' this much before Schapelle fucking Corby came on the scene?

And your point about pot and ciggy's, think about it.  Everyone I have ever known that smokes pot 'alot' is quite fucked up, most of them (not even generalising) are surfies from down the coast, Torquay and Lorne.  I don't know many people who are fucked up from smoking.  I am talking socially or mentally, not through the standard lung cancer or something like that.  Marijuana made all these dickheads slow at work, tired all the time... couldn't get jobs because they looked 'stoned'.  Don't under-estimate its destructiveness.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 09:49PM by Budgie »
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Offline Jtas

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2005, 09:56PM »
settle the fook down budge fudge, everyones entitled to an opinion. :P

As I said before I really don't give a shit if shes guilty or innocent, it's the sentence that shits me when compared to the bombers.

 I feel for the families of those killed in the bali bombings when they hear that the indonesian "justice" system thinks that smuggling 4kg of marijuana is more serious than killing 202 innocent people.

I have never been exposed to illicit drugs of any sort here in Australia, in all my life. Never had them.
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Offline r31vhead

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2005, 10:11PM »
Fuck Corby and fuck all of this shit.

I'm so damn sick of hearing about it all.

I have no intention of adding anything intelligent to this conversation, so I won't.  I will say only this.

I am leaving for bali with 6 other people on June the 26th.  I'm staying in a four star hotel, on the fourth floor (two rooms between us all) I intend to spend most of my time in the sun with my girlfriend and mates drinking a cold one and kicking back.  We will go do all the normal holiday things people do, see the sights, go do all the activities and what not.  Only one of the people I'm going with has been to Bali before, hes been 5 times.  He has a ball each time.

I'm glad she got put in jail, at least now any dickheads will think twice about smuggling anything into or out of denpasar international...

EDIT- Oh and I had plane tickets bought before ANY of this stuff erupted in the media.  Did everyone here 'hate indonesia' this much before Schapelle fucking Corby came on the scene?

And your point about pot and ciggy's, think about it.  Everyone I have ever known that smokes pot 'alot' is quite fucked up, most of them (not even generalising) are surfies from down the coast, Torquay and Lorne.  I don't know many people who are fucked up from smoking.  I am talking socially or mentally, not through the standard lung cancer or something like that.  Marijuana made all these dickheads slow at work, tired all the time... couldn't get jobs because they looked 'stoned'.  Don't under-estimate its destructiveness.



So she's guilty is she?

You were right about not adding anything intelligent to the conversation  ::)
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2005, 10:27PM »
I'm glad she got put in jail, at least now any dickheads will think twice about smuggling anything into or out of denpasar international...

What I dislike here is not the fact that she deserved it or whatever, or that she got a harsh sentence, but more that the judges dismissed evidence presented in support of her innocence.  They did not make all possible efforts to prove her guilty beyond reasonable doubt before sentencing her for a crime she may or may not have committed (the baggage handler stuff in Sydney, for example).

How would you like it if the law system you were exposed to failed to take into account substantive evidence in favour of your innocence if you were charged with a crime?  Moreso, what if everyone who heard about your plight had your quoted attitude toward it all?  How do you think you would feel?  Would justice be served?

And your point about pot and ciggy's, think about it.  Everyone I have ever known that smokes pot 'alot' is quite fucked up, most of them (not even generalising) are surfies from down the coast, Torquay and Lorne.  I don't know many people who are fucked up from smoking.  I am talking socially or mentally, not through the standard lung cancer or something like that.  Marijuana made all these dickheads slow at work, tired all the time... couldn't get jobs because they looked 'stoned'.  Don't under-estimate its destructiveness.

There's a reason I used the term "absolute", Budgie.  Discounting the fact that people who smoke 'alot' would likely be just as fucked up at a heavy marijuana smoker (albeit in different ways), you count 'socially or mentally' into the effects marijuana has: in that same respect, I'm including many other costs into that of tobacco smoking.  Things like the cost to the health system, the money spent on tobacco related illness that could be spent on other health issues, the increasing incidence of athsma in society, the increased risk of heart diseases, the poorer quality of life in general... I think my point is valid.

Did everyone here 'hate indonesia' this much before Schapelle fucking Corby came on the scene?

Actually, after my trip when I was 16, yes, I planned to not go back there if I could help it, because I found it a distasteful place to be.  Now, however, I fear going there because my life will be forfeit if I happen to unwittingly come into the posession of illicit narcotics en route.
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Offline Chadza

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2005, 10:44PM »
Relying on the media, how the hell do we know what was given/not given to the judges though? I find it hard to see how anyone can make an "informed" decision about her innocence/guilt through just seeing what the media have portrayed.

You have got to look at it through the Judge's eyes. What would the prosecution have shown him:

Corby claimed her bag, officer asks her to open it and show him whats inside, he finds 4.1kg of dope in it.

To prove her innocence you would have to go back to who packed the bag/had access to etc....in the Indonesians eyes, she just got busted big time because she claimed it was her bag and they found dope in it. Its pretty clear cut from that angle.

IMHO, this whole Corby thing is a big circus, just cause she is pretty (thats debatable) and wears low cut tops the media LOVES her, meanwhile some Australian/Vietnamese dude is left rotting in his cell while he awaits a similar trial in Vietnam.

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Offline Budgie

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2005, 10:59PM »
settle the fook down budge fudge, everyones entitled to an opinion. :P

Thats very true, but thats including me.  I won't settle down, its my opinion and the way I expressed myself in my first post is indicative of that.

So she's guilty is she?

You were right about not adding anything intelligent to the conversation ::)

Yes she was just proven guilty according to Bali's justice system (I use the term 'justice system' loosely).  You did a great job with the intelligent conversation as well mate.

They did not make all possible efforts to prove her guilty beyond reasonable doubt before sentencing her for a crime she may or may not have committed (the baggage handler stuff in Sydney, for example).

I agree, that was what I would call dodgy!  I also think Schapelle herself appears 'dodgy' as well as her family and that guy Ron Bakir.

Things like the cost to the health system, the money spent on tobacco related illness that could be spent on other health issues, the increasing incidence of asthma in society, the increased risk of heart diseases, the poorer quality of life in general... I think my point is valid.

I do think its valid, but its very easy quoting something out of some research.  You said yourself that you have never been exposed to drugs of this nature.  I have, I will even go so far as to say I have tried them.  I didn't like it one bit.  You seem to missunderstand what I was saying with regards to this, how can you truly understand the nature of a serious marijuana addiction from words?  The figures may support what you are saying, but in your case those 'figures' are the driving force behind your opinion (I make that conclusion from what you have said so far).  In my personal experience, which I belive creates a much stronger opinion you are still trivialising the seriousness of 4.1kg of marijuana by comparing it to the 'burden on the tax payer of a heavy smoker'.  Although I do somewhat belive that I am now blowing this all out of proportion.

Actually, after my trip when I was 16, yes, I planned to not go back there if I could help it, because I found it a distasteful place to be. Now, however, I fear going there because my life will be forfeit if I happen to unwittingly come into the posession of illicit narcotics en route.

If you are paranoid enough to worry about this, then the media and its associated tentacles have really got you by the throat.  How many people do you think go through the customs area in Denpassar every day?  How many are young Australians?  How many are pulled up for trying to smuggle drugs into or out of the country?  I don't really know, but I would hazard a guess that the answers are 'lots' and 'very little'.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 11:01PM by Budgie »
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2005, 11:21PM »
'lots' and 'very little'

'everyone else' and 'Schapelle Corby'

Small odds do not make for no chance, and when the cost of 'losing' is a sizeable portion of the rest of your life, is it really worth it, just for a holiday?
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Offline Jtas

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2005, 11:37PM »
Thats very true, but thats including me. I won't settle down, its my opinion and the way I expressed myself in my first post is indicative of that.

yeah fair enough matey :)

Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2005, 11:56PM »
Dammit, reading over this thread...

the world sucks.

 :(

It mixes me up inside, and there's nothing I can do about it.
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Offline Budgie

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2005, 12:49AM »
'everyone else' and 'Schapelle Corby'

Small odds do not make for no chance, and when the cost of 'losing' is a sizeable portion of the rest of your life, is it really worth it, just for a holiday?

Yes it is worth it, just for a holiday.  Especially when accommodation is free... Its warm over there for christs sake, it was a top of 14 degrees in geelong today.  Too cold for me.
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Offline Alister

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2005, 12:57AM »
Well, I've got an interesting story...
A mate of a mate met Schappelle at the Big Day Out on the Coast awhile back.
Anyway, she went back with Schappelle to her unit/house and it was full of drugs.

Not sure how true it is but my mate says his mate was fairly serious about it.
Still, 20 years if she's guilty or not is a harsh penalty for drug smuggling.
IIRC they released rapists and child molesters in about 14.

Offline Jtas

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2005, 01:04AM »
, it was a top of 14 degrees in geelong today. Too cold for me.

awwww, poor lil tweety pie. :P Your going to really feel the cold when you come back from bali.

Offline SMI7HY

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2005, 01:14AM »
Relying on the media, how the hell do we know what was given/not given to the judges though? I find it hard to see how anyone can make an "informed" decision about her innocence/guilt through just seeing what the media have portrayed.

You have got to look at it through the Judge's eyes. What would the prosecution have shown him:

Corby claimed her bag, officer asks her to open it and show him whats inside, he finds 4.1kg of dope in it.

To prove her innocence you would have to go back to who packed the bag/had access to etc....in the Indonesians eyes, she just got busted big time because she claimed it was her bag and they found dope in it. Its pretty clear cut from that angle.

IMHO, this whole Corby thing is a big circus, just cause she is pretty (thats debatable) and wears low cut tops the media LOVES her, meanwhile some Australian/Vietnamese dude is left rotting in his cell while he awaits a similar trial in Vietnam.

Chad

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Offline Febrile

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2005, 02:09AM »
Alright, we've all said something about the Corby issue, and I don't think we're any of us going to agree.  How about something related - imprisoning criminals?

Gaols, especially ones not in first-world countries, seem to be places that make people in them come out a worse person than when they went in.  See this link (check the 'experiences' link for people's experiences in incarceration) for more information.

Is it a good idea to lock people up?  I'm not saying there's an alternative as things are now, so don't ask that question, but do try to answer it.
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Offline Sharms

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2005, 09:41AM »
I think no matter if you like Bali, hate Bali, like drugs and/or hate drug traffickers, you must surely feel sorry for her. 27 years old and now she must spend 20 years in the can.

As for her defence, apparently it was floored. If you had listend to channel 7 when they had the expert International lawyers speaking, they pointed out many variables that were not addresses. So maybe when appealing, things might go her way.

I thought it was quite strange that she wrote the letter to the prime minister for a pardon before the verdict was read, slight guilt maybe...who knows.

I hate drugs, and drug traffickers, and I can totoally understand the Indonesians wanting to protect their homeland. Sometimes I wish that hard core traffickers here in Aus could get that many years.

Offline Pinsair

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2005, 01:45PM »
i reckon shes guilty and i've got no sympathy for her. if the indonesian government lets her off easily then that'll only encourage other drag trafficers to target their country.

and bali is an awesome cheap holiday destination. i went their with 12 mates in january, had the time of my life. beers $1, pack of smokes (not that i smoke) $1, food/taxi's/going out/dvds/etc etc is ridiculasly cheap. you pretty much live like kings for the duration of your trip. plus lots of sun and swimming. whats wrong with that?

Offline Leopard-Man

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2005, 01:58PM »
As people have said it is hard to make an informed decision, but she got a minimum sentence considering the possibility of life in prison or even the firing squad.  Think about it like this: if she was a fat tattooed middle aged man with a big bushey beard would people be caring at all? Realistically i think not.  In fact we probably would only have heard about it once on the news and that would be the end of it.

Relying on the media, how the hell do we know what was given/not given to the judges though? I find it hard to see how anyone can make an "informed" decision about her innocence/guilt through just seeing what the media have portrayed.
You have got to look at it through the Judges eyes. What would the prosecution have shown him:
Corby claimed her bag, officer asks her to open it and show him whats inside, he finds 4.1kg of dope in it.
To prove her innocence you would have to go back to who packed the bag/had access to etc....in the Indonesians eyes, she just got busted big time because she claimed it was her bag and they found dope in it. Its pretty clear cut from that angle.
IMHO, this whole Corby thing is a big circus, just cause she is pretty (thats debatable) and wears low cut tops the media LOVES her, meanwhile some Australian/Vietnamese dude is left rotting in his cell while he awaits a similar trial in Vietnam.
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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2005, 02:23PM »
as far as a holiday being worth yours or that of a family members life, bullshit. i wouldn't go there knowing that if someone else tries to use my luggage to smuggle drugs, I could get the death penalty. being shot for any amount of marijuana, bullshit. yes it can fuck up some people, i've seen it. but it doesn't affect everyone the same way, i've seen that too. tobacco kills more people than grass each year, yet it's legal. as for Shappelles innocence/guilt, if your're carrying the stuff on your person, then you're guilty as, if it's in your bag & there's a good chance someone else may have placed it there, then there is doubt & dismissing all the defences witnesses is unjust.
I don't care if it's a good lookin babe or a fat ugly dude or what country you're in, justice has not been served.
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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2005, 03:14PM »
im totally with budgie on this one...

and all of you that say she is innocent... is this because of the evidence or because you feel compelled to support a fellow australian? i think too many people are supporting her blindly, i even heard one aussie @ the court room that was interviewed saying ' i dont know her but she cant be guilty, shes an aussie girl and we'll support her the whole way ', ffs

if you dont like/want to goto bali thats cool, but dont hate on a place because of one stupid mole that got dicked trying to smuggle drugs, and ffs if your going to do it, at least make it a drug worth smuggling.

at the end of the day we can sit here and argue all day, but its not going to cut her free or do any favours for the club so i reckon a mod should close this topic about now :P
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Offline Jtas

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2005, 03:16PM »
I don't care if it's a good lookin babe or a fat ugly dude or what country you're in, justice has not been served.

Exactly, my opinion would NOT change at all no matter what she looked like/how old she was or if it was a man.

....... had the time of my life. beers $1, pack of smokes (not that i smoke) $1, food/taxi's/going out/dvds/etc etc is ridiculasly cheap. you pretty much live like kings for the duration of your trip. plus lots of sun and swimming. whats wrong with that?

I don't think anyones said there's anything wrong with having fun/getting stuff cheap. 

Bali is just not the sort of place I would choose to go on a holiday, and that was my opinion before I'd ever heard of Schapelle Corby.

Offline Budgie

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2005, 05:52PM »
at the end of the day we can sit here and argue all day, but its not going to cut her free or do any favours for the club so i reckon a mod should close this topic about now :P

I think its still a good solid discussion, as usual these good opinionated topics are started by narxysus.
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Offline r31vhead

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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2005, 09:19PM »
Yes she was just proven guilty according to Bali's justice system (I use the term 'justice system' loosely).  You did a great job with the intelligent conversation as well mate.

I didn't ask if the the Bali justice system found her guilty or not. It's pretty clear in your first post that either

   - You think she's guilty; or
   - You don't care if she's guilty, all that matters is the message it sends to drug traffickers

If you think she's guilty, what are you basing it on? You're so quick to accuse others of being victims of the media, and yet what's your basis for guilt?

If you don't actually care, then I think that's even worse. How can you say that an innocent person's life is worth a message to drug traffickers?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2005, 10:07PM by r31vhead »
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Re: Schapelle Corby
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2005, 10:22PM »
Perhaps this discussion would benefit from looking at the ramifications of each decision depending on whether she's innocent or guilty.

That is to say, is it worth sending a message to drug traffickers by forefeiting an innocent person's life?

Alternatively, what does Indonesia's offensive on drugs stand to lose from letting a drug runner go?

One really needs to way up these two.  I think it depends on how much value you place on an individual's life, but also on the lives of individuals touched by drugs.

Personally, I can't stand when the innocent are silenced or unheard.  (I feel bad when my dogs don't get fed when they're supposed to, because they have no way of telling anyone they're hungry - they suffer in silence.)  I believe, at the end of the day, drug users have choice, and can choose whether or not to screw up their future with drugs; someone accused of a crime they didn't commit has not got that choice - they must rely on the mercy of their judges.
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