Author Topic: Steering (Read 6700 times)

Rake · « **on:** Nov 15, 2006, 01:58PM »

Somethings wrong with my steering, it's super-slack, the wheels tend to change direction whilst steering, all in all it's just depressing to drive with and at times you feel like you're going to crash because of it.

I think it's the rack, but I'm not quite sure. Whats the general cost to get it fixed up? How hard is it to change steering parts myself?

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 02:29PM »

It is most likely the tie rods, shouldn't cost too much to fix, I need a new one on the left side of my car cause mine has a little play in it, but it hasn't got to the stage yet that it effects my driving so I'm leaving it till it effects something. My mechanic said around $180 each for a replacement I think, check with a mechanic 1st though it may just need to be re-tightened.

Jono · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 06:26PM »

To check if it's your steering rack ends (tie-rods):

Jack up the front end of your car

Grab a wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock and try to rock it sideways. If you can feel play then it's most likely the rack end. Stick your head under the car and if it seems like it's something inside the rack boot then it is the rack end.

Try the other side as well.

If your steering rack boots are perished they will allow grit and water into the joint which makes a mess of the joint and makes it wear super-fast.

Replacements are usually available for a good price on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-RACK-END-BOOT-KIT-FOR-NISSAN-PINTARA-U12_W0QQitemZ320042653680QQihZ011QQcategoryZ32063QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

You'll need a wheel alignment after you replace the rack end.

Febrile · « **Reply #3 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 09:25PM »

This thread is well timed - I hope you don't mind if I hijack it a little, Rake. I decided to have a gander at the old girl today, and this is what I found:

Both boots are well and truly fucked. However, as far as I can tell, there are no other noticeable problems with the steering - it works fine pretty much all the time, except when turning real hard and fast (then it just gets a bit harder). I don't think the tie rods are worn either, I've not noticed any rattles, and the wheels did not seem laterally loose.

I think I better take out the rack to clean it up, and then replace the boots, but my question is: will this be sufficient, given the lack of problems at the moment? And (particularly Jono) can you offer any advice to ease the process if I do do it?

Jono · « **Reply #4 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 09:36PM »

You could probably wash out the joints with petrol or kerosene in situ, use something to squirt it up into the joint. Then grease the joints with heaps of high-temp bearing grease and put some new boots on.

When you're replacing the boots count the number of turns when you're taking the tie-rod ends off the steering arms so you can put them back on in the same position.

If you do choose to take the rack out you'll need to unbolt the steering arms from the wheel hubs and separate them, undo the steering column from the rack, undo the flexible power steering fluid lines (two of, don't undo the hard lines: they stay on the rack), undo the ball joint from the lower control arm on the driver's side of the car so you can swing that strut forwards and out of the way, then undo the two brackets that hold the steering rack onto the car and slide it out through the driver's side wheel well.

Febrile · « **Reply #5 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 09:50PM »

You make it sound as straightforward as the Gregory's manual does, so it must not be a terribly difficult exercise. At the moment I have plenty of time up my sleeve, so I think for peace of mind (and practice) it might be best to take the lot out and give it a thorough inspection and cleaning. Also saves spraying flammable liquids all over the place, lol.

Do you happen to know the price for just boots? I take it replacing the tie rods as pictured in that ebay link would entail rebuilding the entire assembly?

Jono · « **Reply #6 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 10:14PM »

It isn't hard to replace that part at all. You just unscrew that part off the end of the rack using a stillson pipe wrench and screw the new one on in the same manner.

And it's a bitch to do when the rack is still in the car. I recommend doing both at once, it only costs another $20-30 more than just replacing the boots.

Febrile · « **Reply #7 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 10:16PM »

In that case, why the crap not, eh? Once I figure out a plan of attack, I shall order myself a couple. Thank ye very much yet again, Jono.

Rake · « **Reply #8 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 12:16AM »

Digging up thread but eh.

I ended up getting a new rack from a wrecker for $70. Not bad. Threw it in the car with my new suspension and it steers much better. However I found one of the boots had a hole whereby fluid is seeping out.

Is replacing the boots simply a matter of, removing the wheel, removing the outer tie rod from the wheel bits, un-doing the locknut, removing the tie-rod, and just taking the old boot+clamps off and fitting the new ones (+ reverse process for install)? If so, I don't think it'll be too hard a job and I can keep the rack in the car, which'll make life easier.

I've got my old stuffed rack to test anything out on so I might pull it out and play with it. Or perhaps even rebuild it, but hmm.

Kranzy · « **Reply #9 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 12:22AM »

That is how you change the boot, but if there is fluid leaking out from the boot that isnt a good sign. Ive heard there easy enough to repair/rebuild so i would go for that option on the spare rack you have and then put it in the car.

With the boot having a hole it has probably let dirt/grit into the joint causing the seal to be stuffed and allowing the fluid to leak out of it.

Rake · « **Reply #10 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 12:28AM »

I'm just reluctant to use the original rack because honestly it was dangerous to drive with. Just part of the problem is described in the OP, so.

This new rack feels far better to drive with, so for that reason I'm a little more inclined to stick with it than to go through the cost and effort with the other with no guarentee that it'll be like new, because I wouldn't be surprised if it's beyond repair. If it were not for this one issue, there'd be nothing at all wrong with it.

I'm thinking the best I can do is keep the fluid topped up, it'd be harder for dirt to get in if fluid is seeping out. And then just get some new boots ASAP, and when fitting them, just make sure that everything inside of the boots is cleaned up and dirt free before refitting everything and filling it with fluid. From there on I'd hope it's OK.

Kranzy · « **Reply #11 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 09:12AM »

You'll be in a never ending cycle, you'll replace the boot and the fluid will still be leaking. The fluid will destroy the boot you put on allowing dirt to get in. which will stuff your seals even more.

What i would do is take the rack to a shop and get them to repair it to brand new if your not confident with either doing it yourself or not confident in the rack. They will tell you weather or not it can be fixed.

Rake · « **Reply #12 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 10:59AM »

Well fine, we know that then. Then what do I need to buy to fix / rebuild the rack?

Friend just rang and reckons there shouldn't be fluid in the boot? Which is in leiu with what you've just said? Eh. Well I was mighty tempted to rebuild this rack before putting it in but he was all OMG LETS PUT IT IN NOW IT'LL BE RIGHT so now I'm kindof pissed if we're going to have to just take it back out and rebuild it. Grr I'm having a shit day I want to go the fuck home. Fucking work takes up all my fucking time.

I'm confident enough to rebuild it myself. It doesn't look too complex. I just don't see, looking in the FSM, where any seals are that would be culprits for the leaks.

Kranzy · « **Reply #13 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 02:21PM »

Speak with Jono, he has rebuilt them before i think.

Rake · « **Reply #14 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 07:11PM »

Yeah I saw mention of it when I was searching so I shall try ask him.

I went to Autoone and they reckon they can get me a reco'd rack for $200 so if rebuilding a rack involves too much cost and/or effort I might go for that. But I'm still open to options.

Jono · « **Reply #15 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 08:41PM »

Too late, I already saw this

There's something wrong if there is fluid in the boots, there should only be grease in there.

I say pull out your current rack seeing all the working parts are in order, then follow the procedure in the FSM to rebuild it.

If your steering isn't pulsing when you're turning, the pinion will be in alright nick so reuse it and save yourself ~$250.

You will need to buy a seal kit and a pair of boots for the rack.

When you're putting the nylon seals (or teflon, can't remember which) in the rack be extremely careful not to nick them or let them rub on any sharp edges (threads etc) as they go in because the smallest mark on them can cause them to leak fluid. Cover the gears and threads with electrical tape to protect the seals.

krayzie · « **Reply #16 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 09:56AM »

For those who are poor like me and cant afford to rebuild the rack at the moment: Use Lucas Power stearing stop leak. Its so thick that u have to take the strainer off to get it in lol. I had a serious power steering leak 3 months ago and also pulsing, put this stuff in and havent had a prob since. cost less than $20. I dont expect it to last too much longer but it was a quick fix that has worked extremely well. Give it a go.

Rake · « **Reply #17 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 05:34PM »

Quote from: Jono on Nov 29, 2006, 08:41PM

You will need to buy a seal kit and a pair of boots for the rack.

When you're putting the nylon seals (or teflon, can't remember which) in the rack be extremely careful not to nick them or let them rub on any sharp edges (threads etc) as they go in because the smallest mark on them can cause them to leak fluid. Cover the gears and threads with electrical tape to protect the seals.

Where did you get the seal kit, and for how much? I have a new pair of boots so that's OK.

I looked in the FSM as to how to dismantle / reassemble but it says you require certain tools and stuff? Can you give a rundown on the procedure you did? Variation between the "she'll be right" of the FSM and the "motherfucking[i seem to suffer from tourettes]grr" of actually doing the job I wouldn't think is rare.

My old rack was 'pulsing' through corners, that's a good word to describe it actually, but the new one doesn't so I'll probably rebuild it and just use the old one as something to practice on.

Jono · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 3, 2006, 02:32AM »

I can't remember where the seal kit came from, my dad ordered it for me. I'll ask him where it came from.

From memory:

The tools I used were...
various spanners and sockets
soft faced hammer
large shifter
stillsons (plumber's wrench) for the tie rods
circlip pliers
needle nosed pliers to turn the plastic end plug in step 15 of fsm
small flat blade screwdriver to pick out the retaining wire in step 16
Long flat blade screwdriver and a hammer to knock out the inner seal

The only special tool I remember was for the 'yoke plug' - I needed a 14 or 17mm hex key which I made up out of a bolt and an old socket.

Replacing the inner seal was a matter of carefully dropping the seal and spacer into the rack, making sure they landed the right way up, then finding a socket that was just smaller than the O.D. of the seal and tapping it down onto the seal with a rod and hammer until it was seated properly.

Make sure you use the 'protective covers' mentioned in the FSM, I just used some builder's black plastic taped onto the ends of the rack.

Also make sure you smear heaps of grease over the inner ball joints before you put them on... the more the merrier

Febrile · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 14, 2007, 09:56PM »

So I finally decided to get around to replacing my tie rods and boots, which have been sitting here for a while. Everything has gone quite well so far - I got the assembly out in less than two hours, with no major hiccups at all. I've come to taking the rods off the assembly, and I'm not sure what to do now. Do I just brute force unscrew the ball housing from the rack rod, or do I in fact have to drill into that little groove, as indicated in the FSM? I refer to this:

Advice would be appreciated.

Jono · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 15, 2007, 12:32AM »

Yeah, just brute force, use a shifter on the teeth on the other end of the rack to hold the shaft while you unscrew the tie rod end with a plumber's wrench (stillson's, monkey wrench, whatever you call it)

Febrile · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 15, 2007, 07:28AM »

Ahh, good to know. Thanks again Jono. I did already give it a try, but by crikey it's on tight.

Febrile · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 10:46PM »

Well, I've finished. It took a little longer than expected, but it wasn't all that difficult. The hardest was getting the tie rods off the steering rack, I used the folloing arrangement to achieve it:

It really is just well applied brute force. A little tapping here and there to loosen things up may have helped me, and they came off in the end. Also, they are just about as hard to get back on tightly

I had some difficulty getting the lower hose reattached to the rack - for some reason, the thread just wouldn't bite - so I had to undo the screw holding a securing bracket in place to get a little more movement in the hose line, and then it went in fine.

Also to note, I found it easier to remove both wheels, and I took the rack out of the passenger side, rather than the driver's side, as Jono suggests.

Oh, also - the mating marks need to go on the universal joint and the spline, not the rack outsides >_< now my steering wheel is at a slightly different angle. Also, when replacing the rack, don't do up the mounting bolts all the way until you've put the spline back in the universal joint.

Also, don't forget, you'll need new power steering fluid

Thanks again for the excellent advice, Jono.

Febrile · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 1, 2007, 09:34PM »

/cry

I'm pissing out power steering fluid from the passenger side seal, I think. I guess I was a bit too rough with it, and damaged the seal or something. Either way, it's not good. I suspect it'll need a rebuilding, so at the moment I think I might just take the rack out of the wreck, rebuild that whilst still using the daily, then swap it in. Means I'm not so badly off the road.

Will the power steering pump be damaged without fluid running through it?

JIMB0 · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 1, 2007, 09:57PM »

No oil would damage the pump and possibly the rack as well.

Jono · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 1, 2007, 10:25PM »

When you do strip it down, check out the shaft to see if it's pitted from rust.

Mine was, water must have got into the boot or housing somehow and rusted the shaft.

Did you tape over that end of the shaft when you slid the seal over it?

Febrile · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 1, 2007, 10:33PM »

I only changed the tie rods and boots, not a seal.

I forget what else is powered by that belt - if there's nothing on it, can I take it off to prevent the pump from getting fucked?

Edit: Nevermind, the alternator's on there too >_<

Man, this bites. Because the wreck is in the garage now, it means I really don't have a very good place to work on this car. I can do it, but it's outside and on a rough surface. Shyte and botheration! What I don't understand is it was so sudden - the fluid has leaked out very quickly after parking it after a short trip. When I checked the reservoir and poured more in, I looked under the car and sure enough it was coming out as fast as I was putting it in.

Jono · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 3, 2007, 01:15AM »

Are you sure the rack is leaking, or is it a busted hose?

Are you filling it with the engine running?

And I guess you don't have air con. If you had air con you could remove the power steering belt, because the alternator piggybacks off the A/C pulley.

Febrile · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 3, 2007, 03:54AM »

I ended up just swapping the rack + rods from the wreck straight into the daily. It's definetly the seal - fluid came right out of the end of the rack, nowhere else.