U13 Bluebird on PULP

[Alister]

Hey,
After reading discussions regarding running PULP in your car on other Motoring forums, would it be beneficial economy and power wise running PULP on a stock as a rock (apart from the stereo) U13 Bluebird with the k24de?
I'm not too sure it can as the U13 Bluebirds don't have a knock sensor and the standard ECU is pretty primitive. Short of increasing the timing a few degrees or getting a new chip in the ECU, would resetting the ECU then running PULP prove more beneficial economy and power wise than running ULP?
Cheers.

[noss]

the u13 does have a knock sensor and the ecu's are pretty good, far from primitive.

the knock sensor is to prevent pinging if timing is advanced too far though, not to advance timing when different octane fuel is put it. the knock sensor was designed to detect detonation/pinging/knock in you engine. when it detects a ping, the ECU will retard the ignition timing to prevent further knocking.

this is a pic of the u13 KA24DE knock sensor:

[noss]

to answer your other question, you would get a performance gain. advance your timing by around 3-5 degrees to get more power.

[PeteSSS]

i run my SSS on BP Ultimate 98. Definately sharpens things up compared to conventional unleaded. Worth the extra 8 or so cents a litre IMO.

[Sheldon]

my KA24E runs alot better on PULP and gets more klms but it is really forked at the moment as it needs a major tune up and something with the clutch doing.

[Alister]

Noss: Ahh so it does have a knock sensor. I was told by a member of another forum who owned an U13 Bluebird that it didn't and the ECUs were primitive.
Interesting...

How would I go about advancing the timing?

[noss]

if you have a mate who has a timing light, go round to their house and get them to help you, cause buying a timing light will cost you $90 for a cheap one, it'll also help you because they can show you what to do.

warm up engine to operating temperature. shut engine off, and disconnect throttle position sensor connector. restart engine, put the tansmission in neutral, even on automatic transmission. rev engine 2-3 times to 3000 rpm, let idle. check timing with timing light (it’s best to use an advanceable timing light). it should read 20 deg. btdc. (see illustration). to advance timing raise to about 22-23 degrees if you use 91 octane gas or 23-24 degrees if you use 98 octane gas by loosening distributor and turning it. tighten distributor bolts, recheck timing, shut off engine and reconnect throttle position sensor connector and you are done.

i will upload a pdf soon to illustrate what i mean, i'm just having some server issues at the moment and the webhost is trying to help me out with the problem as best they can.

[Alister]

Cheers mate. I might actually get Ford to do it next time I get my car serviced. Saves me from dicking round with it as i'm not familiar with it.

[Alister]

i run my SSS on BP Ultimate 98. Definately sharpens things up compared to conventional unleaded. Worth the extra 8 or so cents a litre IMO.

If it's stock without any modifications, then I think you're suffering from the placebo affect

[Leopard-Man]

Maybe you should actually put it in you car before you say stuff like that, As i also put it in my car and this is the case. infact most people who run premium say the same so maybe put it in your car first.

[noss]

i'd probably not get so narky next time someone tells you premium is a placebo affect, sure you might get more power, but not much.

bp claims it is possible to get 8kw more out of their premium over their standard fuel, but that is not without retuning the car, meaning ecu changes and what not.

[Leopard-Man]

I realise that 8kw is not realistic out of an eveyday car but the difference is there regardless of how small.

[noss]

sorry, i meant 8%, which would be 8-9kw in a u13.


anyway, here is the link for the instructions on advancing your timing:

http://www.antrx.com/tech/article.php?t=7060&a=noss

[Leopard-Man]

Cheers noss.   

[Alister]

Maybe you should actually put it in you car before you say stuff like that, As i also put it in my car and this is the case. infact most people who run premium say the same so maybe put it in your car first.

Erm, i've run it many times bro, what gave you the impression I hadn't?
I've recorded the economy over 5 tanks of Ultimate and its comparable to standard ULP. Things i've noticed are a smoother idle, and maybe a bit more smooth acceleration but not really any more power.

It's no secret if your car isn't tuned for PULP then you probably won't get any more power out of it.

[BennyGee]

some of the things ive heard is that the engine will idle kinda rough, maybe this is only tru on older car without sensors im not sure.

another thing if u were to run ur car on normal ulp with a 4 degree advance would it screw shit up. or would it just be like if ur timing was a bit off.

[Alister]

some of the things ive heard is that the engine will idle kinda rough, maybe this is only tru on older car without sensors im not sure.

another thing if u were to run ur car on normal ulp with a 4 degree advance would it screw shit up. or would it just be like if ur timing was a bit off.

You'd probably start to experience "knocking" which isn't good for your engine at all.
If the car has a knock sensor, it will retard the timing in order to stop the knocking effectively saving your engine.

[wicked]

I'm just wondering if I've understand what u guys r saying:

Premium fuel, burn longer, more power - only if timing is advanced
Normal unleaded, less power
Not much difference in power if timing is not advanced (considering a relatively stock car, no aftermarket computer or cam)


I'm not sure how much more power I'm getting, but certainly not a lot more km with Optimax. Are you guys getting more km with BP Ultimate? 

[Kranzy]

I drive an n13 pulsar and i noticed a big difference when using ultimate in terms of idle and also smoothness in accelerating. Overall power increase im not sure of but knowing that my car is idling better and running smoother is enough reason for me to put in the extra cost...and when i run it on ULP i really notice the difference going backwards. I did notice a little bit of extra km but more to the point the tank would last that day or two longer as i didnt really keep my eye on the km to start with.