Author Topic: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade  (Read 8348 times)

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Offline noss

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u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« on: Dec 17, 2005, 09:05PM »
well guys, this afternoon i upgraded my brakes from a pair of u12 slotted dba rotors to a set of u13 280mm rotors with attesa twin piston calipers to match. here is a brief write up on what went on..

just to clarify for everyone's information, contrary to what has been posted by some members recently, these brakes are in fact a direct bolt on upgrade!


first up you want to loosen your wheel nuts, and jack up the car.




then you want to remove your wheel.. simple stuff so far.




from there, you need to remove your standard caliper. there are two 19mm bolts holding it to the strut assembly. once these are removed, the brake rotor will come straight off.


the stock rotor is sitting on the ground, the stock caliper is resting on the dust cover


i had to make some modifications with a hammer and an angle grinder so the standard dust covers didnt foul the disc. i advise you get a set of u13 dust covers to suit your new brakes.




here you can see the 280mm u13 rotor being test fitted to the hub. yes, rusty rotors, its just a bit of surface rust, these have since been cleaned up and look brand new.




here is the u13 caliper installed over the u13 rotor. use the same mounting points as the standard caliper used. ensure you tighten the bolts sufficiently (refer to your service manual for torque settings)




you will have to fit your brake line to the u13 caliper. you need a 12mm spanner to undo the bolts, they're the same fitting. attach the brake line to your u13 caliper. be prepared to have brake fluid spew out on you.

install pads as per the pad replacement tech article by tas. its the same procedure, just different part numbers.

check everything is tight. bleed the system as per tas' abovementioned article, re-fit your wheel, lower your car back onto the ground.

and there you have it, the finished product.




take your car for a spin. be gentle on it. test your new brakes and make sure everything is finctioning correctly. enjoy.



all up, this was a no hassle adventure into brake upgrading. took me and my dad about 4 hours to do. braking is a good improvement and i pull up much quicker, although i think its an unfair comparrison because i have gone from slotted dba's with metal pads to standard rotors with organic pads, in a few months when i upgrade the pads and rotors, the improvements should be quite good.

recommend it to anyone upgrading that wants a simple upgrade with no stuffing around with machining down discs.



big thanks to my dad for helping, and counterpunch for supplying the brakes.
« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2005, 11:32AM by noss »

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Offline Jtas

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Re: nc: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #1 on: Dec 17, 2005, 09:51PM »
Is there a change in the wheel - caliper clearance.  Will standard u12size wheels fit over the new calipers?  :)

Offline Craazy

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Re: nc: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #2 on: Dec 17, 2005, 09:54PM »
this is exactly what i thought would be the case...  ;D so this is very good, where did you get the calipers from??

and the discs, what diameter are they?? 260 or 280mm


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Offline noss

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Re: nc: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #3 on: Dec 17, 2005, 10:09PM »
yeh there is a bit of a difference, i think you'd need at least 15's to slip these brakes on. funnily enough, edge of the caliper to inside edge of the wheel there is more clearance.. the u12 calipers are kind of chunky and came close to the spokes of my buddy clubs, these there seems to be a bit more.

the diameter is 280 compared to the stock 258mm.. these discs i have are much thicker than stockos.. must be an attesa thing cause dba list them as being the same thickness.

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Offline FalconGuy

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #4 on: Dec 18, 2005, 10:17AM »
Hey Noss,

One thing...In the first post you are saying they are 13" rotors yet down yonder they're 280mm?

13" is ~325mm and 280 is ~11"



Cheers,
Brendan

Offline noss

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #5 on: Dec 18, 2005, 11:31AM »
ah sorry, i was getting confused between these and adam's ones.. his are 12 or 13" - i'll fix that up.

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Offline Craazy

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #6 on: Dec 19, 2005, 04:48PM »
good stuff nossta.....    looks to be a good mod if you can get the parts, i know how much of a pain they are to source....



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Offline SSS

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #7 on: Dec 21, 2005, 09:03AM »
ah sorry, i was getting confused between these and adam's ones.. his are 12 or 13" - i'll fix that up.

mine are actually 274mm in diameter, i chose not to grind down the inside of the caliper where radial interference would have occurred.

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #8 on: Dec 21, 2005, 09:20AM »
oh right! i thought yours were something like 290mm.. so we have the same size brakes now? give or take a few mm. nice.

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #9 on: Jan 4, 2006, 08:34PM »
I had to reduse the diamater of my discs from 280mm to 274 so the calipers fitted.
I think this was because i used r33 skyline brakes that have a mounting boss which is slightly further from the centre of the hub.
Caliper looks identical tho. Its a pretty good improvement over stock ay :)
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #10 on: Mar 3, 2006, 02:02AM »
will the rear brakes work as well converting them from u12 drums to u13 disc's

Offline nu12

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #11 on: Mar 16, 2006, 10:04AM »
I too would like to know if upgrading the rear brakes using the u13 counterparts is possible.

If anyone has ever tried overhauling stock rear u12 callipers, then you know it is almost impossible to completely pull the calliper apart and put it back together.  I tried, failed.  My mechanic tried, he failed too.  He ended up just getting one from the wreckers and bolting it on un-serviced.  Everything worked for a while, but now the driver's side rear brake has just stopped working.  Sometimes it'll stay on, sometimes you can't get it on.  It's f*cked.  And I don't wanna put another set of unserviceable callipers on from the wreckers.  I'm just over it.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #12 on: Mar 16, 2006, 11:31AM »
i'm pretty sure the u13 rears are the same brakes as the u12 rears.

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Offline nu12

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #13 on: Mar 16, 2006, 02:12PM »
Oh dear...

Any idea of an upgrade option?  I'm really sick of these.  I just got everything fixed with them a few weeks ago, and now I've had to pull the callipers off and try and do something again.

I want something that's easy to work on and overhaul.  I don't care if they perform better or not, but if they do that's a bonus.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #14 on: Mar 16, 2006, 02:43PM »
i'm pretty sure the u13 rears are the same brakes as the u12 rears.

I thought the U13 had discs on the rears?
I'll check that when I get home.

EDIT - Yep, 258mm discs on the rear.
« Last Edit: Mar 16, 2006, 02:45PM by Alister »

Offline nu12

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #15 on: Mar 16, 2006, 02:46PM »
So does the U12.  I think some have a combo of disc and drum.  But others (like mine) are just disc.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #16 on: Mar 16, 2006, 02:50PM »
So does the U12.  I think some have a combo of disc and drum.  But others (like mine) are just disc.

Ahh, maybe the TRX and Ti models have discs all round? *shrugs*
I'll doube check that rear disc diameter when I get home. The front discs on the AUS U13s are 280mm.

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #17 on: Mar 16, 2006, 02:57PM »
I think that most models bar the executive maybe might not have discs?

I know one model came out with drums.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #18 on: Mar 16, 2006, 04:11PM »
The Pintara Gli had drums out the back.

All of the corsairs had discs all round.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #19 on: Mar 16, 2006, 06:59PM »
OK,

Executive and GLi Pintaras had drums on the rear, everything else including Corsairs had discs.

U13 rear brakes are slightly smaller in diameter than the U12s, but they're thicker. These size differences mean that you can't put a U13 caliper on a U12 disc and vice-versa.

U12 and U13 calipers are exactly the same except for the size of disc they're designed to fit over. This means that U13 calipers are just as hard to work on as U12 calipers.

You can pull the calipers right apart into their individual pieces, I've done it on a pair of U12 calipers, and I needed some replacement parts, namely the pistons, so I picked up some U13 calipers for a decent price and used those parts. But you CAN completely dismantle the calipers.

The only special tool I used to dismantle and reassemble them was a pair of circlip pliers with ground-down tips to fit in the small circlips inside the piston.

Quite frankly, if your mechanic couldn't rebuild your calipers I would be doubtful of his ability to work on your car.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #20 on: Mar 16, 2006, 08:33PM »
I knew that only the exectives had drums...im learning :P

I knew the corsairs had disc all around and only the base model pinny had drums.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #21 on: Mar 17, 2006, 04:14AM »
ok that really didnt answer my question but since im goin from drums to disc it will work since i will have to get the whole rear brake caliper, rotor and everything else

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #22 on: Mar 17, 2006, 08:42AM »
OK,

Executive and GLi Pintaras had drums on the rear, everything else including Corsairs had discs.

U13 rear brakes are slightly smaller in diameter than the U12s, but they're thicker. These size differences mean that you can't put a U13 caliper on a U12 disc and vice-versa.

U12 and U13 calipers are exactly the same except for the size of disc they're designed to fit over. This means that U13 calipers are just as hard to work on as U12 calipers.

You can pull the calipers right apart into their individual pieces, I've done it on a pair of U12 calipers, and I needed some replacement parts, namely the pistons, so I picked up some U13 calipers for a decent price and used those parts. But you CAN completely dismantle the calipers.

The only special tool I used to dismantle and reassemble them was a pair of circlip pliers with ground-down tips to fit in the small circlips inside the piston.

Quite frankly, if your mechanic couldn't rebuild your calipers I would be doubtful of his ability to work on your car.

Read that post as it answer your question.
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #23 on: Mar 17, 2006, 08:55AM »
sorry kranzy... i fail to see how that answer's the whole "is it possible to upgrade from drums to disc's if i have all the parts" question...

im pretty sure it IS possible, but dont ask me on which parts exactly are needed, i wouldnt know...
im not really clued up when it comes to brakes... YET ;D
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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #24 on: Mar 17, 2006, 08:59AM »
Its pretty obvious though if he has all the parts needed from either the u12 or u13 and that most of the pintaras and all corsairs came with discs and there isnt a difference in the physical build of the car that it is possible.

Its given him the option to know that parts off both cars will fit also.
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Offline nu12

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #25 on: Mar 17, 2006, 09:18AM »
OK,

Executive and GLi Pintaras had drums on the rear, everything else including Corsairs had discs.

U13 rear brakes are slightly smaller in diameter than the U12s, but they're thicker. These size differences mean that you can't put a U13 caliper on a U12 disc and vice-versa.

U12 and U13 calipers are exactly the same except for the size of disc they're designed to fit over. This means that U13 calipers are just as hard to work on as U12 calipers.

You can pull the calipers right apart into their individual pieces, I've done it on a pair of U12 calipers, and I needed some replacement parts, namely the pistons, so I picked up some U13 calipers for a decent price and used those parts. But you CAN completely dismantle the calipers.

The only special tool I used to dismantle and reassemble them was a pair of circlip pliers with ground-down tips to fit in the small circlips inside the piston.

Quite frankly, if your mechanic couldn't rebuild your calipers I would be doubtful of his ability to work on your car.

Yes, I got them completely apart using a modified pair of circlip pliers too.  Getting them back together was another issue.  You need a press-tool, but I doubt that it would really help much.

OK then, seeing you got them back together, I would really love a quick howto on just how you did that.  You seem to need an awful lot of force to push the spring down enough to click the circlip back in place.  I couldn't do it.  And I tried real hard.  You didn't do it by not putting that washer on the base of the spring so that it sits lower did you?

You probably did it the right way, I'm just real surprised.  But then again, you are the wise man.  ;)
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Offline ffourc

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #26 on: Mar 17, 2006, 10:03AM »
love your axle stands Noss. (or Sqoss - fomerly known as noss)

re- upgrading from drum to disks - you'll also need the disc hand brake cables, also drum/disc attachment to rear struts is different, so an adaptor plate at the least (I can't image they'd use different struts on the same cars)

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #27 on: Mar 17, 2006, 04:27PM »
hehe.. what axle stands? ::) :P

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #28 on: Mar 18, 2006, 02:34PM »
ok that really didnt answer my question but since im goin from drums to disc it will work since i will have to get the whole rear brake caliper, rotor and everything else

I believe the base of the strut is different (the bit with the stub axle), and as ffourc said you need the disc handbrake cables as well.

Getting them back together was another issue.  You need a press-tool, but I doubt that it would really help much.

I put my caliper between the jaws of a vice with a tube the right size pushing the spring and its retainer into the caliper. For a tube I used an old gudgeon pin I had lying around.
______                                                                ___________
          ] ____________                                        [                   |
          ] |  spring          _____________________  [                   |
 vice    ] | \    /\   |----  |            tube                | [      vice        |
          ] |   \/    \ |----  |____________________| [                   |
          ] |___________                                        [                   |
          ]         caliper                                           [                   |


meh paint would have been clearer but you get the idea. You use the vice to compress the spring, then put the circlip back in while it's still in the vice.

I tried doing it in a vertical press but a vice is so much easier to work with.
« Last Edit: Mar 18, 2006, 04:33PM by Jono »
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Offline nu12

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Re: u12 -> u13 attesa twin piston brake upgrade
« Reply #29 on: Mar 18, 2006, 02:44PM »
Thanks for the howto.

It looks like I'll be trying it.  I'll let you all know how it goes.

I tried with a vice too, but I wasn't using a bolt, and I think my vice may have been a bit small, so I ended up using a G-clamp, and that slipped all over the place....

I will buy a new vice (I chucked out the old one in the move anyway) and give it another go.
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