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U12 Bluebird, Pintara & Stanza => performance and handling => Topic started by: vlturbo1 on Sep 17, 2014, 07:34PM

Title: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: vlturbo1 on Sep 17, 2014, 07:34PM
Hey Everyone,

Long time no speak, a few years now I think since I been on here.

A while ago I was trying to sell my KA24e Turbo Pintara on ebay before I went overseas but I decided to keep it instead after lack of interest. When I got back I fixed up a minor oil leak which turned out to be a cracked oil case (Had to replace). A while ago I got the car retuned with 17psi and it pretty much sat around until taking it to Heathcote drags on Sunday. It ran 13.8@108mph See the video below my mate took with his Go Pro (he also edited the clip haha funny stuff)


Engine is a KA24e rebuilt with hypatec pistons and cam regrind. All the details were listed in a previous page which  I came across here while I was trying to find out more info about the engine and the gearbox strength.

Car is currently running 200fwkw on 17psi....Does anyone know what these Ka24e engines can do boost wise in pretty basic form? Im thinking of winding it up to around 22psi.. Ill need about 250fwkw to get a 12sec pass. Just wondering if anyone knows whether there's any issues with valve springs or something like that? It all seems pretty good, but I have heard the hypatecs can just crack after 17psi...??

Is there many performance parts out there fore the single cam heads or are they pretty solid?

Also, any idea how strong the 5spd LSD's are? Anyone broken one trying to go quick?

I am just wondering whether it'll push into the 12sec mark, cant really find much out there as you could imagine. The drive shafts seem pretty damn tough though (quite thick with decent splines). Its got a basic Exeedy heavy duty clutch on it atm but I think I might need a slightly better one. Though there is not much slip at this stage surprisingly

Any help would be much appreciated  :)

Kind Regards
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: Budgie on Sep 17, 2014, 08:17PM
Awesome! :) Good video as well mate.

No idea about the strength of the KA24E top end or the gearbox at the kind of power level.

There is a guy selling a boosted FWD KA24DE U13 on gumtree at the moment tho (similar FWKW), who just had the gearbox rebuilt. Maybe send him an email and ask?

Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: vlturbo1 on Sep 17, 2014, 10:55PM
Cheers Budgie. Just emailed him.. will wait and see what he says. It might be just a rebuild but yeh.
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: fst_trx on Sep 17, 2014, 11:00PM
Good stuff!

What slicks are you running on the 17s,where you getting alot of wheel spin?
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: vlturbo1 on Sep 18, 2014, 12:11AM
The slicks are used medium racing slicks off Mini Cooper Challenge cars. A guy was selling them for $50 on gumtree. Ran them on about 14psi. It was quite warm - around 23degrees. Sunny all day, so the track was quite warm.

I had some wheel spin after launch (for about 3/4 of 1st gear where I was on about 75% throttle) so I would only spin them moderately. Its hard to tell because I havent raced alot and the track is so awesome. No matter what I tried on the 6 passes I couldnt get my 60ft times under 2.2 seconds.

I feel that a better clutch, more boost, Proper drag slicks(on 15inch rims) and most importantly a cool night (maybe at calder park) and it would have gone at least half a second faster. 5degrees compared to 23degrees temperature would make a big difference but then again everyone else has to put up with it so no point crying about it.

I was reading on a Honda forum that those guys ran huge mph like mine and a slower time on 17inch rims, but when they had 15inch rims that were lighter with slicks they ran a quicker 60ft by like 2tenths, this translated to about 6tenths at the end of the quarter even though they got lower trap speeds.
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: pedro666 on Sep 18, 2014, 02:11PM
good stuff,
maybe even just an oil drop and replace with some new  & better gear oil? I think the 50 series box should be fine..is it LSD
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: SR20ME on Sep 18, 2014, 02:36PM
I don't know but your MPH indicates maybe you could have taken some more time off? Wheel spin may have cut of some time for sure. Good on  you for doing a turbo conversion on your N/A motor. It wouldnt be an easy job.

What turbo are you running? I hope once my car is ready and tuned in due time that I'll be getting similar power levels but I thought with weight and power it would be closer to a low 13.
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: SSS on Sep 18, 2014, 05:25PM
Can you refresh our memories on the car's setup?

You are right - your 60ft is killing you, a relatively standard KA can do a similar 60 ft time.

I'd suggest that the slicks you are running have been heat cycled one too many times, reason I say this is that if they were hooking up well, you'd be easily sub 2.0 sec 60 ft and possibly on the verge of damaging axles / splines etc on standard axles.

What kind of boost control are you running? Look at a staged setup, where you can run lower boost levels in 1st / 2nd gear, and ramp it up hard into 3rd and 4th.

Has the car got a LSD? If not, look at something like a phantom grip locker type unit to let you hook up better off the line, or invest in a better mechanical LSD if you plan on doing circuit work.

What turbo are you running? Reason I ask is that at 17psi, even on a KA, you should be making more than 200kw at the wheels. I suspect your pre and post intercooler temps are still quite high.

Look at converting the car to run on E85, i'd expect with a retune you'll be looking at another easy 20kw at the wheels.

Otherwise good work, glad to see others racing their U12's.
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: SSS on Sep 18, 2014, 05:34PM
Also, you are pretty spot on regarding what you are putting out at the wheels - using one of the many ET calculators on teh intrawebs, 108mph using a 1200kg weight yields 267hp at the wheels: 199kw.

Using 267hp at the wheels and 1200kg weight, you should be able to do a mid 12 at 108mph. Get some drag radials and get your 60ft time right down!
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: vlturbo1 on Sep 18, 2014, 06:12PM
Pedro666 - Its a 5spd LSD that came standard on those cars(TRX etc.. ) I am running basic VMX80 Castrol Oil. Not sure how this would improve the performance but open to ideas of course. It shifts great already and the LSD works fine (I actually bought the box second hand off someone on here if I recall)

SR20ME - From what I am told the MPH indicates its got lots of horse power. Just lacking on traction. If you cover the distance quicker, in practice you reach a lower top speed. For example there was a guy there with a VL Turbo that ran 10.9 at 121mph. Thats only 13mph faster than mine. Not much at all really. Its acceleration that counts not top speed, so yeh better grip makes sense. Turbo specs are below.
Your right the Turbo conversion is not for those who give up easily and it certainly was not easy but now that I know what to do it would be quite easy. The power I have I reckon should be a 13.3 but yeh maybe a sub 2sec 60ft would just do that.

SSS - Here you go (below). And yes the Slicks are now over cooked but they werent heat cycled too many times when I bought them.... Only once before I got them from what I understand.. It is probably the weight of the rims and the low profile tyres killing it the most otherwise I would probably be doing 2.5 60fts

Boost control is a Turbosmart tee valve.. though I never thought of that.. definately something I could look at getting is the staged setup.. Really great Idea ! Thanks.

Turbo specs are below, my mate has run these turbos up to 20psi before they cark it. Its just the thrust bearing that gives way and they blow smoke. In fact I overheated one once on a previous set up and did the same thing. I am proabably going to sacrifice this one though as its not going to be worth anything used. May as well wind it up and blow it up and then get a new one or better one

Intercooler is quite large so I dont think the intake temps are big, it was actually tuned on 16psi but it overboosts to about 17psi...

The tuner also said to look at E85. They think that I need forgies, better turbo and E85.... as long as the box can handle it I should get 250 no problems. I think I might be the guinea pig with these hypatec pistons though. I read alot of good stuff about them and rarely here about people ( other that the guys who got the crappy ACL ones) with issues. Mostly its all about tuning which the tune is quite good and on the safe side. The tuner doesnt want to wind it up past 20psi unless I forgerise the bottom end, I reckong I should just wait till it breaks considering the cost of fixing it (not much) as opposed to redoing the motor.

Valve springs - When I spoke to the engine builder, he said that unless your going past 7000rpm he wouldnt bother, he thinks they are more for high revs as the force on them is squared after 6000rpm???

2.4litre ka24e turbo engine (single cam)
5spd LSD man KA24  gearbox
Microtech LT10s with individual Bosch coils and Microtech ignition box with Microtech Handcontroller
Hypertec pistons, chromemoly rings
T3/T4 highflow turbocharger internal gate (ebay chinese special)
Custom Built turbo manifold (Exhaust Brother Geelong)
Custom turbo spec regrind camshaft by Clive Cams in Melb
Engile oil Cooler
660cc VDO siemens high imp injectors
800hp bosch intank fuel pump
Large front mount intercooler
Oil catch can
Manual Boost Controller
3inch mild steel Exhaust with Highl Flow cat and Cannon on rear.
Mild Steel intercooler piping with silicon hose connectors and high strenght clamps
Tuned by Dalton Automotive in Geelong
Exeedy Heavy duty clutch
Thermo Fan
Monza Race seat, Shifter, Sports steering wheel, Solex door locks, Central locking and Alarm/ Immobilizer
Autometer Gauges, O2 sensor with gauge.
Custom made King Springs (3-4inch lower than standard all round)
Pedders Gas sport ryder shocks up front std read
17inch alloy wheels
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: SSS on Sep 19, 2014, 11:58AM
Even if you just convert and retune for E85 alone, the bottom end you have now will be able to withstand more punishment.

Also, a dual stage boost controller should work fine as I mentioned, run say, 7-10psi as your low setting, and have a push button to activate high boost (17+psi) when you get into 3rd. Alternatively, if you wanted to dump the Microtech and upgrade to a newer ecu (even something like a Haltech Sprint 500), it will have built in boost control and launch control that you can play with to get your 60ft down.

I'd seriously consider dumping the ebay special turbo, and go with a new Garrett GTX / Precision Turbo, what you will be getting out of this is a compressor that is far more efficient at compressing the incoming charge with less temperature gain. Lower charge temp pre intercooler = denser inlet charge post intercooler = more torque / power at the same boost level.
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: vlturbo1 on Sep 19, 2014, 11:33PM
I just tried the bottom end on 20psi.. lets just say it worked (for now). Its f%$kin mental to drive on a cool night though lol... lots of fun!!!  ;)  I honestly think a cool night makes all the difference. E85 sounds good but its not something I'd seriously consider unless I was doing the whole bottom end again and forking out heaps of cash, may as well if I was spending all the money on everything else but I have a good enough setup now for 20psi.. except of course the problem of the turbo exploding...

I would love a Garrett Roller bearing with a small external wastegate when I get more money. Plus I am looking at a better exedy clutch disc. Its called a cushion button..I dont think I want a full button clutch, not much fun to drive from what I have seen. Also, I will get the flywheel lightened to try help reducing the rotational mass.

Anyone know of some lightweight wheels I can get to put some 205/50/15 slick tyres on?? or even a 14 inch wheel? Whatever would fit on the front. I wanna put better drag slicks on some light rims.
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: crazy2287 on Sep 21, 2014, 08:54PM
That's what i like to see, Props getting out to the drags! smashing time slips, Good luck!
Title: Re: 13.8sec 1/4mile @108mph U12 Pintara
Post by: SSS on Jul 30, 2015, 01:01PM
Any updates?