Author Topic: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....  (Read 5296 times)

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Offline greenbird

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Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« on: Aug 10, 2007, 10:02PM »
Gday all.
I've had some trouble with my Bluebird this week and I'm after some advice and suggestions.
It started aabout 5 days ago when the car just decided that it would start mis-firing at idle. The car had been running flawlessly for about 40 minutes previous to this, as I was on my way home from work. So everything as up to normal operating temperature.
I turned the car off and re-started it no problem, but it was still mis-firing. In the end I held my foot on the throttle until the engine was able to overcome the mis-firing, revved it to 6000rpm a couple of times and everything came back to normal.
Anyway, another 3 days go by after this without even a hiccup....
And today.... On my way home from work, the car decides to mis-fire again at idle. It did this on 3 seperate occasions then cleared up and ran fine. Then whilst driving along at about 60 km / hour the car just died. The  tacho dropped to nothing and I rolled to a stop on a side street. I tried to re-start it a couple of times and it wouldn't fire. Then after waiting about 60 seconds, the car started and gave me no more problems for the rest of my drive home (about 10 minutes).
Tonight I backward flushed the fuel filter by connecting it to the fuel supply line backwards, pointing it into bottle and turning the ignition on for a few second  to remove that as the cause (a lot of crap did come out, this also proved the fuel pump is fine.), I cleaned the spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor button.
Tried to start it and nothing. It would sort of fire as I was turning it over with the starter motor, but it would then just cough and die.
So now time to check the codes... I got 11 (Cam Position Sensor), 21 (Ignition Signal-Primary) and 34 (Knock sensor).
After pulling the codes, I tried to start the car again and it started. Although it was a little rough during start up, once running it seems Okay at the moment.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should be checking and / or replacing first? I have my fingers crossed that it's not the distributor (no oil has made it into the distributor)... They are expensive!
Its my first real trouble in 7 years of ownership of this car, so I guess I can't really complain too much!!! Guess I will have to brave the weather and ride my motorbike for a while....
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dan.
93 U13 Bluebird
5 spd
Finer Filter, Hi-Flow cat & 2.25" exhaust
17X7 Concept 5 wheels
2 inch lowered King Springs

Offline slim

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #1 on: Aug 10, 2007, 10:32PM »
I doubt it isn't your distributor. When mine played up it the car stopped all together and wouldn't start.
As you said you have checked inside the distributor cap for oil and found none. The oil was leaking steadily from mine.
A recon on mine cost me $280 but new ones start from $350 (ebay) to $1200 for Nissan.


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Offline greenbird

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #2 on: Aug 10, 2007, 11:11PM »
I doubt it isn't your distributor. When mine played up it the car stopped all together and wouldn't start.

Cheers for the swift reply Slim.
So do you think that the distributer is, or isn't the problem? I'm unsure about the way you have worded the first sentence above...
My feeling is that the cam position sensor is intermittently 'cactus'... And lucky for me, as we all know, that is part of the dizzy. There's a check for the cam pos sensor in the factory service manual, so I will be carrying that out this weekend when I get a chance. As well as checking the coil, and power transistor in accordance with the manual.
Cheers, Dan.
93 U13 Bluebird
5 spd
Finer Filter, Hi-Flow cat & 2.25" exhaust
17X7 Concept 5 wheels
2 inch lowered King Springs

Offline slim

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #3 on: Aug 11, 2007, 12:08AM »
not the dizzy.
Yeh that cam sensor can be a problem. If its that then most likely new dizzy
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Offline wicked

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #4 on: Aug 11, 2007, 06:08PM »
Yeah, I know what u r going through. I had similar problem with misfiring at idling before. My first thought is the cam shaft sensor in the dizzy as that's the most mentioned problem but for my case it's not. I did not replace anything to fix my problem. Listed below are the test I did.

The first thing I did was to unplug all connectors, make sure that the wires are still intact, give it a good clean with a electrical cleaner (u can buy it from Jaycar, I've used one with a light oil coating to prevent corrosion).

I went through the diagnostic section in the service manual (search under rough idling from what I can remember). If you don't have it, do a search, I'm pretty sure someone mentioned the link to download it. You do need a multimeter though (Jaycar sells cheap multimeter too). I don't believe guessing problem and replacing it to see if it fixes the problem cos it's just too costly (no offence to anyone please). Here are some readings I have:

Ignition coil
•   Primary – 1 ohm
•   Secondary – 12.95k ohm

IAC valve tested working (solenoid tested with 12V) P167

Injectors 11 ohms for all four

Throttle position sensor
•   Closed - 0.9k
•   Open slightly – 1K +
•   Fully open – 8K

Power transistor checked ok

Knock sensor 11M ohm



Also recently, after checking spark plugs, I did not plug the cable into the spark plug properly (I did not push the centre of the cable into the spark plug properly, it did cause misfiring as a result.

Hope all these helps.  :)


Offline greenbird

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #5 on: Aug 11, 2007, 08:03PM »
I went through the diagnostic section in the service manual (search under rough idling from what I can remember). If you don't have it, do a search, I'm pretty sure someone mentioned the link to download it.

Lol, Thanks Wicked. I was actually the one who posted the link to the FSM, I have the whole thing printed off and i've been reading it to help me resolve these issues.
Tonight or tomorrow I will one by one work my way through all of the tests that you have mentioned, and also test the cam position sensor according to what it says in the service manual.
Aswell as you guys, I also don't think that the dizzy is the problem. From what I have seen and heard happen to other peoples cars, cam / crank shaft position sensors don't go intermittently faulty. They either work fine, or don't work at all....
I'm going to have a good hard look at the coil and the power transistor.
Cheers guys.
Dan.
93 U13 Bluebird
5 spd
Finer Filter, Hi-Flow cat & 2.25" exhaust
17X7 Concept 5 wheels
2 inch lowered King Springs

Offline greenbird

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #6 on: Aug 12, 2007, 07:03PM »
Well, last night I found the problem, and what I originally thought was wrong....
There was oil in with the cam position sensor. Now that I think about it, I have had an ever so small weep into that area for a few years now, but I haven't checked it since originally finding the leak. So it must be getting in there ever so slowly.
I have cleaned all of the distributer out with contact cleaner after my car stopped dead this morning and everything seems to be working fine now. I might just have to make it a part of my regular maintenence schedule to check and clean out the dizzy.....
If it gives me any more trouble in the short term though, I will look at having the dizzy pulled apart and re-sealed.
Has anyone out there done this themselves???
If not, can anyone reccomend a place in Adelaide to rebuild the dizzy for me?
Thanks again, Dan.
93 U13 Bluebird
5 spd
Finer Filter, Hi-Flow cat & 2.25" exhaust
17X7 Concept 5 wheels
2 inch lowered King Springs

Offline Budgie

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #7 on: Aug 12, 2007, 07:57PM »
Now that I think about it, I have had an ever so small weep into that area for a few years now, but I haven't checked it since originally finding the leak. So it must be getting in there ever so slowly.

Common issue on KA24E U12's as well Dan.

I did exactly what you did, opened it up and cleaned it out with contact cleaner.  Was a lot better after that but I have noticed that its already dripped more oil out onto the vac lines that run under it on the U12's.  So a new seal is probably in need!
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Offline Colby

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #8 on: Aug 12, 2007, 08:04PM »
I used a bit of that white elastic tape stuff and put it around the o-ring, havnt noticed any oil dripping since.

Offline slim

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #9 on: Aug 12, 2007, 08:16PM »
I used a bit of that white elastic tape stuff and put it around the o-ring, havnt noticed any oil dripping since.

The only problem with that is the inner bearing seal can still leak oil through.

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Offline greenbird

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Re: Misfiring, won't start sometimes and ECU codes....
« Reply #10 on: Aug 12, 2007, 08:47PM »
Thanks for re-posting that link Slim.
The only part that concerns me is: When you press the 'knob' back onto the distributor shaft, how do you know that you have put it back on with the correct orientation? If it is out at all, your timing will be up sh1t creek.
I guess that the ignition timing can be adjusted my rotating the distributor up to a certain extent. I guess that so long as it is roughly in the same place, evertthing should be okay?
Dan.
93 U13 Bluebird
5 spd
Finer Filter, Hi-Flow cat & 2.25" exhaust
17X7 Concept 5 wheels
2 inch lowered King Springs