Author Topic: Manifold Example  (Read 8194 times)

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Offline [JAZZIE]

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #30 on: Sep 11, 2003, 03:46PM »
ahh a critic!
No, not all factory exhaust manifolds are cast iron.
Eg.. many toyota 4cyls including some celicas, all SW20 MR2s.. come with factory mild steel extractors/headers.
the aforementioned 3000GT twin turbo has one cast manifold and one mild steel manifold (V6 twin turbo). Why? the mild steel manifold is placed at the rear turbo (east/west engine) as that area receives much less cooling... and cast manifolds would fail/crack/warp too quickly. yes - a mild steel manifold.. while not retaining as much heat energy as a chunky cast iron manifold for any given change in temperature... is actually more reliable under heat stress. And no, the rear manifold is not at all prone to failure on these cars.
 
I could list on but theres no point, and to be honest I dont really pay a lot of attention to which N/A cars have mild headers.
Most, yes. All, definately not!
 
I am -not- forgetting the fact that 800+ degree gas is passing through the pipes at high pressure and velocity. Which is exactly why I stated that an unground manifold with bits hanging off will most definately flake.  Yes, I have a magical die grinder. With the right flexible extensions and cleverly shaped tips.. and sometimes a bit of manual filing, it is not difficult to ensure all surfaces are well ground. And with proper preparation of the steam bends and careful welding, the actual grinding necessary is very minimal. However, I do not go so far as to call it magical.. its just intelligent.
 
Whats more.. the manifold I have been running on the MR2 was created by another company. It is unground internally.. but is there any evidence of flaking, despite the excessive heat it has seen and the fact Im pushing 1.5bar of boost (= very hot and high pressure exhaust gas)? no. all edges are still rough and sharp.
 
is there any damage to my turbine? no.
 
No, I do not heat treat my manifolds. It is an innecessary cost. A well designed and welded manifold will last a long time.
 
My question. who does? and what makes you think heat treating a manifold is a good thing?
 
If someone wishes to heat treat one of my manifolds after buying it.. then they're welcome to. If someone wishes me to include it in an already bloody cheap $600 price, they can wake up now and stop dreaming.
 
Do you really even believe that a small amount of tiny metal flakes will actually damage a turbine?
Why is steam pipe a different matter?
And what are you suggesting? That I make my manifolds out of thin, crack prone stainless? Or set up a large iron casting factory? Oh I know! I'll invent a new metal! And I'll call it Trisobium. Designed specifically for exhaust manifolds.
 
Yes, I know, Mild steel isnt perfect.. but its the best option out there especially for those budget conscious modifiers. Do you disagree???
 
If you dont disagree .. then why the hell are you hassling me?
If you do disagree then please enlighten me! Im yet to hear what you think would be better.
 
I honestly have no idea whatsoever of why you are being so critial of my work.. and the materials I use.. you have yet to offer any suggestions in regards to what would be better... so please, get to the point.
 
-Tristan
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If you think negative, your life experience will be negative.
You bring into your life what ever experiences you desire.

Offline noss

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #31 on: Sep 11, 2003, 03:56PM »
guys if this carries on i'm going to have to lock this thread.

as for steam pipe, i think the point being made is that the edges are bevelled, therefor making it a piece of piss to weld up and there are none, or virtually no dags on the inside of the pipe when its done. although, then again, that may not have been the point being made as i only very quickly skimmed through the latest posts.

jasmine, if you are going to keep posting what tristian has to say, or if he is going to log in as you and post what he has to say, i'd rather he have his own user account as its confusing to a few people around here.

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Offline [JAZZIE]

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #32 on: Sep 11, 2003, 04:23PM »
i i Cap'n :)

no more posts from tris... :)

sorry for those who were confused...

:)

- Law of Attraction -
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You bring into your life what ever experiences you desire.

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #33 on: Sep 11, 2003, 04:49PM »
Good afternoon all.
Tristan here, logging in as requested.

Lock the thread? I didnt even realise there was a flame war going on. Perhaps I better read it from the beginning cause Ive only received snippets in the email.

-Tristan

Offline SSS

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #34 on: Sep 11, 2003, 04:53PM »
you say your cryogenically heat treating your manifolds?

you realise cryogenics is freezing?

how can you freeze heat something? virtually impossible!

cry·o·gen·ics    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kr-jnks)
n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)
The production of low temperatures or the study of low-temperature phenomena.

Don't be a smartass, i know what cryogenics means. Did i say that was the method i would use to treat a manifold? No. I already know which form of heat treatment i will be using on MY manifolds. Will i be sharing it pubically? NO. You want to know what it is? Go and get a Mechanical engineering degree.
I have reasons for doing so, which i am not going to share with you.
Your ignorance is shown by stating that it is "virtually impossible to freeze heat something"; heat is defined as a form of energy transferred from one system to another.
And if i am not mistaken, freezing something that is a higher temperature than the freezing medium is transferring energy.
Steam pipe is a different matter as it is 7mm thick for schedule 12 piping, and well, is designed to carry high velocity superheated steam, which can get up to 1300deg C.
I know what i'd rather have.


Offline noss

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #35 on: Sep 11, 2003, 04:53PM »
i'd rather lock it before the shit hit the fan thats all.

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flupstar

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #36 on: Sep 11, 2003, 05:02PM »
ok.. continued..

yes noss, I think he was talking about steam bends.. and you're somewhat correct about the bevelled edge preventing most dags. 75% of my time when creating a manifold is actually spend machining the steam bends.. shaping the bevelled edge perfectly  and ensuring the surface is 100% flat to minimise dags. but that doesnt entirely prevent them

something worth mentioning.. is that the welds are actually MUCH harder than the metal used in the steam pipe. For example, they take twice as long to grind away.. the metal is quite simply harder. The 'imperfections' are therefore also a lot less prone to flaking off compared to say... a bit of the actual steamp pipe, not filed off correctly or something.

Also, dags in stainless welding are generally a lot more of a problem as imperfections on the inside of the pipe caused by welding penetration are increased by many times.. due to the thin pipework necessary in stainless runners.

On another note.. I am trying to be civil in my discussions. I dont entirely appreciate the way that some people are coming across to me.

Some people ask questions, and I reply.. with as much technical backup as I can offer
However, some people come across to me as simply trying to beat me / my work down or discredit me... for no good reason.. and with no technical backup or improvement suggestions. I dont agree with that.

I will do my best to remain civil and speak entirely on a technical level.. and I hope others will give me the same treatment.  If the shit does hit the fan.. it will not be my own doing.

-Tristan
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2003, 05:34PM by flupstar »

Offline [JAZZIE]

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Re:Manifold Example
« Reply #37 on: Sep 12, 2003, 07:03PM »
http://members.iinet.net.au/~jasminew85/TX3/

Above is a link to where the boiz are upto on the tx3..

Ben the owner is driving it around atm.. as far as i am aware.. we are yet to make those arrows disappear and the pipes nice and smooth... and we are puting a bigger intercooler on it either this weekend or next...

We are after people who are serious about manifolds to contact us as we are about to start the first batch.. if anyone is interested PM either myself or "flupstar"

Thanks guys and gals,

Jazzie
- Law of Attraction -
If you think positive, your life experiences will be positive.
If you think negative, your life experience will be negative.
You bring into your life what ever experiences you desire.