Thoughts of a finance student

[cruizer]

Well I was thinking, our schools teach us a variety of well rounded subjects: Sciences, Maths, English, Language, Physical Education, History, Art. Why don't schools teach Money Management?

We hear everyday about people getting into financial trouble. Why do schools not put an emphasis on Money management?

Discuss....

[wombat]

Because the shiny arsed academics don't think that how to avoid Bankruptcy is as important as how to appreciate a Degas masterpiece.

School is run by and for Academics. Those rarefied people who wear bow ties and have too much academic focus to be any practical use. Either that or there's a reason that the Government want people to overspend and fail. It moves the money around faster and gives the government more chances to skim off their 10% GST.

[Luke]

Academics, and language minded people, feel free to be offended by the narrow minded crap that follows.

Learning English in year 12 is the biggest pile of crap I have ever done. I hated it, I suck at it, and I cant see how it helps in the big picture. Even though there are people out there who enjoy it and are good at it. What do they achieve?? (That may or may not be a rhetorical question. No actually, can someone answer that, cos I don't really know.) All I know is, writing some sort of response about a novel is just wasting my time in writing it, and anyone else who reads it's time in reading it. Who gives a shit, seriously.


/Narrow-minded, slightly irrelevant rant.

[stretch]

At my old high school they would give you a 'street smart' hand book and send you on your way.

Your right when you say that people need to be educated on how to handle money, however some schools (like my old one) are run like a business and count on your lack of financial knowledge to make money. I remember my school actually winning business of the year a couple of years back, our canteen also made well over fifty thousand dollars profit each year too.

I also agree with what Luke is saying even if it is a little off topic. You may already know this but we were jibbed. Apparently a lot of schools now offer alternatives to your basic English class such as, History of the English language, English vocabulary etc...

[Maximus]

dont people normally choose the subjects they do? i choose maths applications as opposed to maths methods and i learnt about stuff like playing the sharemarket, budgeting and balance sheets aswell as banking stuff like interest rates.

same with English, i didnt choose the English Studies i choose English Communications, which taught how to write letters and resumes (not so much in year 12 but in yr11)

maybe when your in year 8, 9 and 10 it just sucks, but when your able to choose subjects in year 11, 12 choose things like accounting, maths apps, econmics etc. it makes middle school look pointless i spose

[chr1S]

Academics, and language minded people, feel free to be offended by the narrow minded crap that follows.

Learning English in year 12 is the biggest pile of crap I have ever done. I hated it, I suck at it, and I cant see how it helps in the big picture. Even though there are people out there who enjoy it and are good at it. What do they achieve?? (That may or may not be a rhetorical question. No actually, can someone answer that, cos I don't really know.) All I know is, writing some sort of response about a novel is just wasting my time in writing it, and anyone else who reads it's time in reading it. Who gives a shit, seriously.


/Narrow-minded, slightly irrelevant rant.

Oh I agree oh too much!!!

I always got in arguments with my fruitloop of an english teacher about how the fuck she came up with an idea of why they used x colour background and how it effects us in how we interpret the books cover, get fk'd. No logic whatsoever.

[noss]

dont people normally choose the subjects they do? i choose maths applications as opposed to maths methods and i learnt about stuff like playing the sharemarket, budgeting and balance sheets aswell as banking stuff like interest rates.

at my school, english was compulsory in yr 11 & 12 and maths was also compulsory, although you could choose between maths a & b there was also maths c, which was additional to maths b

[Luke]

My school was the same Noss, had to do atleast 1 language based subject. And I did the maths A and B too. School's don't seem to teach many life skills, example: I havent used standard deviation once since I left school! Who would have seen that coming?

[Febrile]

Learning English in year 12 is the biggest pile of crap I have ever done. I hated it, I suck at it, and I cant see how it helps in the big picture. Even though there are people out there who enjoy it and are good at it. What do they achieve?? (That may or may not be a rhetorical question. No actually, can someone answer that, cos I don't really know.) All I know is, writing some sort of response about a novel is just wasting my time in writing it, and anyone else who reads it's time in reading it. Who gives a shit, seriously.

I don't know about people who specialise in english, but I think there's something for the classes at school.  The idea behind english is that you are taught that media of various kinds will often say something it doesn't look like it's actually saying, and you're able to recognise and identify that.  Put simply, it teaches you that (a) there is space between the lines, and (b) how to read between them.  Sure, some of the connections they draw in english are vague and sometimes absurd, but nonetheless the fact that they can be drawn should be a signal to you that the world can be read in many different ways.  You need to be able to keep an eye out for this, so you are not misled or misinformed or persuaded without being aware of it.

I didn't like english either, but ever since doing it I have been keenly aware that people rarely write/film/say stuff without having a motivation to do so, and it is that motivation which can be hidden between the lines which we should be aware of.

We hear everyday about people getting into financial trouble. Why do schools not put an emphasis on Money management?

In principle, I would wholeheartedly reject this idea.  If it is necessary because of the appalling state society is in, so be it, but otherwise, I would not support this.  Why? It's commonsense.

(Money in) - (Money out) = (Money left over)

if (Money left over) < 0

then reduce (Money out)

      until (Money left over) > 0

If this is too late in the income/spending cycle, then apply the same methodology to expected future money in/out.

That's all there is to it.  There's no 'money management'.  It's a simple process of not spending more than you earn.

I would not be surprised if the sort of people who think that credit cards are free money are the same kind of people who flunked english and did not grasp the idea of 'ulterior motives'.

[BILL*69]

I did both English Comm's and Maths Applications (sharemarket, interest, investments were the topics) in year 12. I also thought my year of English was the biggest waste of time, i didnt do my last major, just because i saw no reason for it to help me in the future.

I have no debt whatsoever, and am actually investing in my own super and long term savings already at the age of 17. All because of exactly what Narxysus said, i make sure my money going out is the same or less than the money going in.

Fair enough, Jaye is right they should think of teaching it if the financial state of humans is so bad, but their argument could well also be that those who dont have the common sense to keep money out < money in, they deserve to have the debt and pay interest on it, suffer the consequences of no common sense.

[chr1S]

Sorry narxysus, I still think complusory english is a load of fucking crap.

I have not used it since I left school and in this course i'm doing at uni, i dont think i ever will. For some career paths, sure it will come into play.

I have a strong gut feeling on teaching kids how to save greatly depends on the parents. Having said that though, a kid could come from a financially struggling family and it would be hard to explain concepts of saving as such.

[Febrile]

Sorry narxysus, I still think complusory english is a load of fucking crap.

I think part of the problem is that people expect all subjects to be useful in a tangible way like maths etc.  With english, and related studies, like history - it's not like you go out and actively 'use' what you're exposed to in the class, but I believe that subconsciously and incidentally, the lessons are employed in your day to day life without you necessarily being aware of it.  It all just adds to your knowledge and the way you perceive the world.  Your life, and what you learn at school, is not all about your career - an education that focuses on shaping young people to be productive economic units is not much of an education at all.

Too much nowadays people want immediate, tangible, useful results from a process, and no one is giving consideration to things that have a subtle, long term payoff that is nonetheless worth the cost. 

[BILL*69]

Correct Narx, you have an incredibly good debating side to you.

[chr1S]

Right, so having said that, why don't we learn how to write, punctuate, spell, etc correctly, we use them on a daily basis don't we?

Don't forget, half the crap high schools teach in basic grades such as english standard, people like myself loose interest in a split second and thus don't care, I've said to her many times because she hassles me why I can't tell her why someone felt refreshed after having a swim in the water that I would have a much greater concentration span if it were focussed on english grammar.

It's funny how my physics, engineering and maths teachers agree.

Yeah sure, analysing a book may help up analyse something in a real life situation, but most of it is real life instinct rather than methods learnt in english besides, it's english class right not emotional class? I can count 1000 essays she mentioned where we need to express our opinion emotionally in order to make a good statement. meh.

[SSS]

I should have been a doctor.

[Maximus]

i spose the interest in english differentiates the masses

whilst it teaches you crap that you probably would never think of using it, subconsciously you might be. It depends on what you go on to do in life. a bricky probably wouldnt use it much, but other paths require in depth thinking and analysis, just like the skills learnt from watching a crappy movie and writing two pages on hidden messages.

as for teaching Money Management, well that would be great and society would probably benefit, but that could possibly throw off the entire balance of the universe. The country needs idiots who take out massive loans and get into huge debts, its the way of the world. We all know what caused the great depression... people saving money. That is something that the smart person does, and something you would probably be taught in the Money Management course

but we need people who throw money away, remember consumer spending amounts to 60% of GDP

[Colby]

I dont think we need an extra subject at school teaching us this stuff.  It already seems there are like 2 new maths courses... we never got taught about sharemarket and crap in maths.  That was what accounting was for.

Not many people go bankrupt because they dont know how to manage their money... it happens because they take risks.  To make money you have to take risks... usually bigger risk = bigger payback.  People are just greedy and thats why they go bankrupt.

At highschool you are not in a position to take the types of risks you will face at 25 and on.

[Febrile]

Right, so having said that, why don't we learn how to write, punctuate, spell, etc correctly, we use them on a daily basis don't we?

We do, but it's supposed to have happened in primary school, or lower high.  By upper high school you should have obtained these skills.

Yeah sure, analysing a book may help up analyse something in a real life situation, but most of it is real life instinct rather than methods learnt in english besides, it's english class right not emotional class? I can count 1000 essays she mentioned where we need to express our opinion emotionally in order to make a good statement. meh.

It's difficult for me to articulate what I want to say in response to this, but I think I can best summarise it by a chicken and egg scenario - in a society with a more developed cultural/social identity, the things we learn in english would probably be of much greater importance.  But we're all here scratching around in the dirt making a living and then going home and watching tv, so english isn't as important.  But the only way we're going to change that is by making english more important, so we teach it in schools.  You see what I mean?

I have to go to work now - I'd like to elaborate, but I guess it'll have to wait.

[cruizer]

Wow lots of replies and debate, thats what i was after 

The way I see it is English was great because it was easy marks!

Fair enough, Jaye is right they should think of teaching it if the financial state of humans is so bad, but their argument could well also be that those who dont have the common sense to keep money out < money in, they deserve to have the debt and pay interest on it, suffer the consequences of no common sense.

Not sure if a agree with that statement. Sometimes it isn't common sense. When the media is bombarding people with the 'now now now' mantra people lose common sense "I need that, I need this". There is a huge difference between needs and wants which is considered common sense.

I'm too tired to make some decent posts so I'll go post whore some more and maybe contribute properly tomorrow...

[BILL*69]

Common sense would suggest that the media cant infiltrate your brain, common sense would make you study yourself and find out what really is needed, and would mean you can define you needs and wants more easily compared to someone with less common sense.

That whole sentence even confused me, but in short, those who supposedly lose their common sense by media infiltration, probably didnt have that much common sense to begin with.

[Budgie]

We do, but it's supposed to have happened in primary school, or lower high.  By upper high school you should have obtained these skills.

Indeed.

Plenty of my grade 5's have the skills to read, understand the meaning of the text and read between the lines (infer meaning) from said texts.

However, some of them have a lot of trouble with this.  They are sometimes the same kids who have trouble understanding other students emotions, speech and body language.  Reading 'between the lines' is an EXTREMELY important skill, not only when reading your daily newspaper or website, but also when applied to your own everyday life.  These are sometimes kids that get thumped out in the yard or are disruptive in class...

By the end of Grade 4 (according to VELS, vic education standards) all students should be able to 'read' ... once we get them in Grade 5+ the focus is on reading for meaning.  You read to generate an image/idea in your mind, learn something, understand something.  As Narx' said, meanings are hidden everywhere we look.  This is not always apparent to all children/students and can be a very difficult concept to grasp.

Bah!!... I loved English at school loved literature and hated maths with a passion.

Cruiser, I've been reading a book recently with my girl called 'rich dad poor dad'.  Fascinating book about the financial journeys and movements of people, one persons view on making money mirrored against the progress of friends and family over the years.  Puts things in perspective.  However, putting things in perspective is very difficult for most high-school students.  This is something that comes from parents, not schooling as such.  The majority do not understand the importance of financial responsibility when young because their parents have set a poor example, or sometimes no example at all.

In most cases, the poor stay poor and middle class stay in the middle and the rich stay rich.  But there is always room to move, always.

/end ramble

[cruizer]

I've read Rich Dad Poor Dad too, quite a good book.

For anyone that is interested I suggest reading 'The Richest Man in Babylon'. One of the best books on money you can read. No gimmicks or get rich schemes 

[Budgie]

I've read Rich Dad Poor Dad too, quite a good book.

For anyone that is interested I suggest reading 'The Richest Man in Babylon'. One of the best books on money you can read. No gimmicks or get rich schemes 

Seriously, because I will buy it for my girl.  She loves this stuff.

[noss]

Right, so having said that, why don't we learn how to write, punctuate, spell, etc correctly, we use them on a daily basis don't we?

lol.. i consider myself to have quite good skills in this area. i just dont punctuate a whole lot on antrx cause its the interwebs and most of you kids make sense of what i write still.

if everyone had spelling and grammatical dramas like pringles i think i'd go insane.

there are tafe courses if you feel you're knowledge in this particular area isnt up to scratch 

Fair enough, Jaye is right they should think of teaching it if the financial state of humans is so bad, but their argument could well also be that those who dont have the common sense to keep money out < money in, they deserve to have the debt and pay interest on it, suffer the consequences of no common sense.

with this, i dont agree either, my outgoing money is more than i earn, in a sense.. the reason why? i was not and will never earn enough in one pay period to buy my house outright, nor will i save enough money in a lifetime to do so.

hence a big fat debt. but its a debt worth having.

also, all the uni kids taking advantage of hecs. big fat debts everywhere (not as big as my home loan though  )

after you incur this massive debt though, on a pay to pay basis you then need to keep everything into perspective and not go over budget, but sometimes something pops up and it makes things impossible, it could be anything.. say for example, your hot water heater failing in your house.. a hot water unit is something not many people would want to live without, so to experience discomfort for the shortest period possible, if there is no money in the budget for the hot water unit, more money goes on a credit card and you have to play catch up. but you keep that in mind too and cut back on your spending for a while until your back in the green..


debts are not bad money management, until you let them become uncontrollable. the majority of people have the common sense to not let things get out of hand.

i dont even know what i'm saying there is a point somewhere in that.

However, some of them have a lot of trouble with this.  They are sometimes the same kids who have trouble understanding other students emotions, speech and body language.

lol maybe dave failed english 

[Jono]

I've always been of the opinion that you should only borrow money for your needs, not your wants.

i.e. you NEED a house to live in, you could either pay someone rent and never see that money again, or you could take out a home loan and buy a house, then pay it off using the money that you save on rent, plus a bit. It may cost a little bit more each period until you get it paid off, but after that it won't cost nearly as much, and you're left with an asset worth a few hundred grand.

On the flipside:

You NEED a car.

You WANT a nice car.

Do you go out and buy a brand new [insert make and model here] and pay it off for the next 5-10 years, which ends up costing you $55k, for a car originally worth $35k, that is worth $10k by the time you finish paying it off? ($45k loss)

Or do you buy a shitter for $2k, drive it for 5 years and sell it for 1k? (1k loss)

Is it really worth over a year's pay (for most of us anyway) to drive a new car for a year, which quickly becomes a new-ish one for a few years?

This is what my parents have drilled into me from day one, and I'm thankful for it.

On the same sort of topic, a couple of my mates started talking about getting motorbikes. I had been meaning to get my bike licence for a while so I went with one of them and did the Q-ride course, and loved it. I'd never really considered buying myself a motorbike but yeah, after that day I started looking. I took a few for test rides over the next few weeks, found one I liked and bought it outright. My mates who are looking at bikes both have car loans and finance on other things, and it doesn't look like they'll be able to afford to buy one for a year or so because they (frankly) had shit financial planning. They each bought stuff that they wanted on finance and realistically couldn't afford, and are paying for it in the long run.

[/preach]

there are tafe courses if you feel you're knowledge in this particular area isnt up to scratch 

I'm guessing that was deliberate?

I never liked english because of the pointless reviews and stuff that we had to write. They're too arbitrary and, as much as it isn't supposed to, the marking depends too much on the teacher's opinion. I do value communication skills though, which probably shows in my spelling and punctuation, etc. But I had all that by the end of primary school.

[BILL*69]

Good points.

Because i dont have a house, or any loan for that matter, and at this point in time i have no ACTUAL needs like a house etc, i guess i never thought of it that way. Hence, it helps to have a bunch of grandfathers on here 

[cruizer]

Seriously, because I will buy it for my girl.  She loves this stuff.

Go buy it. Its written in an older language. The stories are almost like 'parables'. It's written in older style writing but thats part of why it is so interesting. He's sold over 2 million copies so it's gotta be good.Its only around $15 too.

[Kranzy]

Its only around $15 too.

Thats good cause budgies a tight ass.

[Budgie]

Thats good cause budgies a tight ass.

fuck you kranz...

true however

You NEED a car.  You WANT a nice car.

This is a view I have come to establish myself and with some of my friends.  I have recently been leaning towards buying a new'ish car.  Primarilry because now i'm earning money (more so than I used to) and because I am finding the TRX uncomfortable to drive for such a distance every day.

But then I thought about it even more.  The only things I really want out of a 'communting car' that I don't really have in the TRX... are...

- interior comfort (seating, aircon... climate control is even better) - TRX's seats are stuffed
- ride comfort (smoother over bumps, etc)
- cruise control (i'm on country roads alot)
- quiet inside when on the highway

I don't need to buy an 8-10k BA/BF falcon or something to get this... a $3k U13 Bluebird would suffice.  Its funny that I'm posting this in the same post in which i've quoted Kranz calling me a tight ass!!

But seriously.  Until I have money to 'blow' on a nice new car, I simply won't.  As jono said, I don't NEED too.

I'm always hanging shit on Urq because he blows his cash on new shit he uses once then never uses again... its dumb!  I like being a 'tight ass' when it comes to this kind of stuff, it will help me in the future

[chr1S]

Until I have money to 'blow' on a nice new car, I simply won't.

lmao

[harlot]

Its because you would need to be in year 11 and 12 to understand it all and those are the years where you can choose your subjects. If you want to know about money then you do Business studies.

[cruizer]

Its because you would need to be in year 11 and 12 to understand it all and those are the years where you can choose your subjects. If you want to know about money then you do Business studies.

I did business studies and that didn't do jack sh*t to help with money management. It was business management and economics based.

[BILL*69]

Indeed so was mine. My main maths came from Maths Apps, which tought basically, everyday maths. Sharemarket, Investment, Money etc etc. Business studs did SFA to help my money management.

It also falls heavily on the parents... My dad always drills into me to save for unseen circumstances, place extra in my super to get the balance up etc etc.

[Jono]

As far as I'm concerned, until I get a deposit together for a house my money is better off in my high-interest bank account than in my super fund.

I've got another 40 years to contribute to it anyway.

[Febrile]

As far as I'm concerned, until I get a deposit together for a house my money is better off in my high-interest bank account than in my super fund.

I've got another 40 years to contribute to it anyway.

The earlier you put it in, the less you have to put in overall, though.

[cruizer]

The earlier you put it in, the less you have to put in overall, though.

The power of compound interest.

In Smart Investor magazine they have a special on being a millionare retiree. All you have to do it salary sacrifice $5000 a yr, the earlier you start the more you have. Apparently if you start at 30 you'll have about half the balance you would if you started at 20 

[SSS]

this thread is teh smrts. 

[BILL*69]

I salary sacrifice about $1k a year on top of the compulsory 9% or whatever 

[Febrile]

The power of compound interest.

In Smart Investor magazine they have a special on being a millionare retiree. All you have to do it salary sacrifice $5000 a yr, the earlier you start the more you have. Apparently if you start at 30 you'll have about half the balance you would if you started at 20 

This does all hinge on the stability of financial market, of course.  If there's a collapse, it's all kapooie.  Given stuff like the sub-prime mortgage crisis, this is something I worry about a little.  My super dropped from $19k to $16k as a response to it.

[cruizer]

Yeh obviously. Thats assuming a return of 7%. Over time the average return would even out to be a bit more than that I'd say but hey, I guess we'lls ee when we retire 

[Febrile]

Slightly off-topic, but since this thread appears to be stagnating - do people expect their living standards in the future (over the rest of their lives) to be as good, or better than they are now?  This is something I worry about a bit - no doubt I'm overly pessimistic because of what I read and am interested in, but to my mind there are a lot of factors which could cause a noticeable, if not substantial decrease in living standards within my lifetime.

To that end, I keep my mind open to learning things which might be useful in such a future, and I try and become comfortable and happy without needing stuff or services which may not be available to me in the future.  As I said, I'm no doubt a bit extreme, but I do wonder what other people think about the future?

[SAIUN]

Peter Cundall (the old dude that talks funny from Gardening Australia, if anyone remembers) is convinced that in the next 20 years there's going to be a massive financial recession, and that's why he's so intent on teaching people how to grow veggies in their backyard. So when the time comes where everything will supposedly go to shit, he'll have done his part to help humanity survive.

Nutcase. 

[cruizer]

Well I hope that going to uni and creating a future for myself will improve my living standards. It's very hard to say I think/. I prefer to be optimistic but I can definately understand how you can be pessimistic narx. Seems the the world is going down the crapper already.

[Maximus]

yeah no doubt there will be a recession in the future, Australia basically mimics the US (as does the rest of the world)

i dont know if it will be food stamp bad, but still something to worry about

im hoping my standard of living will increase, being a uni student it cant get much worse lol

[BILL*69]

Very sorry for the dig.

One year on from the second to last statement about the recession, and look where we are standing. Stimulus to bring the economy up. Who knows if it will work. The next question is, how long do people think our recession will last?

[SAIUN]

Technically, a recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. We've only had one quarter of negative growth so far, so we still need another one for it to technically be a recession. Of course it'll inevitably happen, but everyone's just been jumping the gun a bit.

[cruizer]

Its funny Bill because I was reading this just yesterday, was considering digging it up!

Personally I figure let the recession happen, and then spend all this cash Kevin is spending now, on infrastructure projects etc during the recession. Personally i think we needed this recession to "shock" the system (people living beyond their needs etc). People won't change their behaviour unless they are forced to and this might be thing that does. It also uncovered alot of crap that was going on in the corporate world that really needed to be stopped.

I'm trying to get as much cash together as possible at the moment and start buying up some undervalued stocks and possibly invest a decent chunk in an index based ETF to get some more long term investment happening.

In regards to GM getting into big trouble i think its interesting what will happen. It is assumed in a capitalist market a business will change with the needs of the consumers and the surrounding environment but all we have seen Holden do is create more V8's etc. Makes you wonder if they deserve to go down for not innovating and creating greener cars. The problem is Australia can't afford to lose the jobs.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just trying to avoid study, i hate portfolio risk analysis 

[Budgie]

Ford in Geelong should far alright... with the inline six staying a while longer and the diesel engines from fords euro arm soon to make an appearance (similar to jag diesel V6's).

There's far too much cock-sucking and ball tickling going on in the corporate world, these ass-clowns need to be given a wake up call.  Like that bloke said last night, directed at the people behind AIG's stuff up.  Either resign or commit suicide, like the japanese... that will sort the money hungry fuckers from the whack-jobs

I have a friend who works from AMEX in sydney.  They have the same over-paying bullshit going on all over the place.  Its all a joke!

[noss]

the people in those positions havent learnt because of the supposed financial crisis.. thats why people are being laid off left right & centre so they can keep their big fat wages and profits up.

they keep telling us its a crisis but a lot of places are increasing profits. its the biggest scam the world has ever seen.

[Budgie]

Just got a msg from a close friend of mine, runs a Telstra store.

He has just laid off 4 people he described as 'excellent' because he was told to do so.  Hardest working week of his life he says, having to tell 4 people that they are no longer needed.

He's fired tons of people before, but due to other reasons.

[cruizer]

Dads had to lay off close to 15 people in one day a few months ago, he said its the hardest thing he has ever done in his life  Got death threats and everything 

[wombat]

Peter Cundall (the old dude that talks funny from Gardening Australia, if anyone remembers) is convinced that in the next 20 years there's going to be a massive financial recession, and that's why he's so intent on teaching people how to grow veggies in their backyard. So when the time comes where everything will supposedly go to shit, he'll have done his part to help humanity survive.

Nutcase. 

This was posted almost exactly 12 months ago - now who's laughing?

Seriously, though. This financial collapse is going to shaft a lot of people who don't deserve to be shafted, so that the fatcat shiny arses can keep their big pay packets, bonuses and payouts. AIG in America paid out tonnes to their bosses and asked the Government for help. I'm really just reiterating what everyone else has said though - the rich will stay rich, the poor will lose their homes, cars, super etc. Sure, the rich might have less money in the bank, but none of the CEO's of the major companies will be in Centrelink queues, trying to work out how to feed their families on Newstart Allowance.

[noss]

lol, wouldnt get much caviar on a newstart allowance

[Smiley Of Terror]

stick it to the man guys!

Just got a msg from a close friend of mine, runs a Telstra store.

He has just laid off 4 people he described as 'excellent' because he was told to do so.  Hardest working week of his life he says, having to tell 4 people that they are no longer needed.

He's fired tons of people before, but due to other reasons.

I don't see anything new here... Telstra are always firing people, regardless of the economy. It is what they do best.

[Febrile]

Personally i think we needed this recession to "shock" the system (people living beyond their needs etc). People won't change their behaviour unless they are forced to and this might be thing that does.

If it wasn't for the fact that people always think this whenever a recession comes around, I might find this a useful point of argument.  But everytime, when the boom turns to bust, people resign themselves to the bust and blame the boom.  It's fatalism, but I guess it keeps us sane.

[chr1S]

Jaye next time you're on the net, let me know, I wants a chat

[Colby]

I was reading the other day Bill Gates is the riches person alive once more.  All the big billionares lost heaps in this downturn.  One of them had $45 billion... reduced down to $20 billion... can you imagine loosing $20 billion in one year?  Its crazy how much the rich have lost.  Just doesnt make too much difference to their lifestyle i suppose.
"oh Jeffrey, we are going to have to start using the small jet this year"

[bogan_bob]

Bill gates losing all that money is very bad, he and his wife run a foundation that donates millions, if not billions of dollars a year to projects to help the third world and this has been making massive improvements behind the scenes, i hope this doesnt get scaled back

[noss]

he didnt say bill gates that lost the $25 billion.. he said 'one of the richest'.. bill gates lost either $12 or $18 billion. i'm confused on how much he lost because the the one NBC article that i read quoted him as losing $18b and then $12b

anyway, i doubt he'd scale back what he's doing. even though he started the most evil company the world has seen, he seems like a top guy that would indeed scale back his personal spending to keep the charity work going.

[cruizer]

If it wasn't for the fact that people always think this whenever a recession comes around, I might find this a useful point of argument.  But everytime, when the boom turns to bust, people resign themselves to the bust and blame the boom.  It's fatalism, but I guess it keeps us sane.

Yeh this is the first major downturn I've been in. It certainly makes a big difference when you are studying finance, it gives you a new take on things.

As I said before I'm just planning to sit on the sidelines and start picking up some undervalued stocks. Fear has played a massive factor the last year in the sharemarket. I honestly feel for the people that were planning on retiring within the next 5 years  

[Budgie]

stick it to the man guys!

I don't see anything new here... Telstra are always firing people, regardless of the economy. It is what they do best.

He fired a women recently who had credited her phone account with $4000... so she didn't have to pay a phone bill for a while.  He fired her, she lost it, tired to commit suicide 3 weeks later.  He got an attacking email from the women's brother, a photo of her in her hospital bed and him saying "if she dies, you die".

He's had a security guard walking him too and from his car at work since then, two weeks ago!

[Smiley Of Terror]

anyway, i doubt he'd scale back what he's doing. even though he started the most evil company the world has seen...

what? Bill Gates started Coca Cola?

wow!

He fired a women recently who had credited her phone account with $4000... so she didn't have to pay a phone bill for a while.  He fired her, she lost it, tired to commit suicide 3 weeks later.  He got an attacking email from the women's brother, a photo of her in her hospital bed and him saying "if she dies, you die".

He's had a security guard walking him too and from his car at work since then, two weeks ago!

yeah that's hardly recession related... a worrying story. but she seemed fired for just reasons.

[Budgie]

Its is slightly recession related.  I believe she was excessively worried about finding another job, compounded by her being fired for a just reason and the fact that jobs are thinner on the ground.

[noss]

yeh there will be heaps more crime now and it will certainly be recession related.

[Smiley Of Terror]

positive thinking people! its the only way to beat it. seriously...

[thumbtack]

yeh there will be heaps more crime now and it will certainly be recession related.

take ireland for example.  when i was a kid and economies werent so rad, i remember every night on the news how the IRA and the rest of ireland were all antsy pants at each other. and funnily enough, we slipping into and economic downturn and hey presto, rocks are being thrown again.

apparently beer sales also rise during recessions.

vicious cycle

[cruizer]

apparently beer sales also rise during recessions.

Which is funny because people complain about not having enough money for bills etc but are still happy to spend on alcohol and cigarettes 

[Smiley Of Terror]

apparently beer sales also rise during recessions.

thats true... but not for the reason you think.

alcohol sales don't increase significantly.. there's just a shift towards cheaper stuff... like beer and casket wine.

[bogan_bob]

Sounds like its time to grab some shares in lion nathan, fosters and diago!!

[slim]

Which is funny because people complain about not having enough money for bills etc but are still happy to spend on alcohol and cigarettes 

and gambling. I think its increased.
new catch phrase, "more you spend the more you stimulate the economy"