Looks like Australia is going down the sh*tter

[cruizer]

Well it looks like Rudd has won....say hello to a economically conservative Australia everyone...

[hrmmmm]

oh well, looks like johnny buttscab has been finally ousted , good ridance to short bushy-eyebrowed Prime Minister's I say.

I think after 11 yrs or so Johnny has had chance after chance to improve Australia, he brought in GST when he said he wouldn't, he brought in those stupid IR laws which Rudd will abolish and he sent our troops to that stupid war on Terror that we don't belong in because G W Bush said to go, not that I don't think our troops are doing a good job, I just don't think they belong there, and Rudd will bring them home to their families.

Rudd might be good for Australia, how will we know until he gets a fair crack at the leadership, the problem is people want howard out but then vote for him and whinge about the stupid unreasonable crap that he is doing.

[Colby]

I think Howard has been just fine.

Rudd's party is dominated by the unions and they will play him.
Things we now have to look forward to are...
- Higher intrest rates, hence first home out of question, but rent will go up also.
- nasty inflation, so our dollar will be worth less
- industry strikes, due to unions
- Selling off australian public investments to private companies.

Lets see what he's got to actually offer this country.  They may suprise, but I doubt it.

[phantom]

i rather dislike both of them...oh well too late now...

[hrmmmm]

I think Howard has been just fine.

Rudd's party is dominated by the unions and they will play him.
Things we now have to look forward to are...
- Higher intrest rates, hence first home out of question, but rent will go up also.
- nasty inflation, so our dollar will be worth less
- industry strikes, due to unions
- Selling off australian public investments to private companies.

Lets see what he's got to actually offer this country.  They may suprise, but I doubt it.

I don't think it matter's who the PM is, interst rates will still go up, we just had one under Howard, in december there will be another one but under Rudd, if Howard was still PM do you really think he could stop the rate rise right on top of Christmas. You will still be able to buy MOST of a first home, I wil be buying my first property within the next 18 months, you just have to have the right advice and be sensible with your purchase. 

[LC_TRX]

in terms of Australia as a country, i think Howard has don a good job. i get the feeling that Rudd will dissapoint some people with his conservative views and therefore the economy will suffer. there will never be a single PM who keeps the entire Australian population happy. he made some decisions which didnt go down well with the majority of the population but like i said, you cant keep everyone happy.

im not very political and this is the first year that i have had to vote so i dont have a strong passion for politics.
anyway, just my 2 cents

[Jtas]

You know where the door is cruizer...

[BILL*69]

You know where the door is cruizer...

x2. asshat 

[Febrile]

- nasty inflation, so our dollar will be worth less

You realise that we actually have a lot of industries that benefit from a low exchange rate, yes?

Honestly, do you people really think that starting next week, the country will begin some downward rollercoaster of decline?  I think claims either way are absurdly overblown.  Look at workchoices.  It's been what, two years?  And they're still trying to determine the effects, good or bad.  GST? 7 years, and what sort of impact on your life, or even broadly, can you identify?

It would be a long time before anything Labor did impacted seriously, and by then the power of democracy lets us change if we so wish.

[slim]

  And they're still trying to determine the effects, good or bad.  GST? 7 years, and what sort of impact on your life, or even broadly, can you identify?

well paying stamp duty + GST is ridiculous.
wasn't the GST was suppose to remove stamp duty and other taxes ??
SO fuel, insurance, mortgages were to be drop!!

[Sticky]

hws the better choice? peter costello or kevin rudd?

i know who ive chosen

[greenbird]

Strong economy has its down sides.
It meens the rich get richer and the poor and middle class get left behind.
Then throw in little Johnny's workchoices, which removes a lot or rights from the workers and gives the employer the upper hand. Buisness owners a laughing all the way to the banks, but the working class are all left suffering.

And what has everyone got against the unions anyway? Remember, unions exist to help protect working class people (the majority of people in this country) from getting a raw deal. Of course the Liberals wanted to abolish the unions. Unions fighting for the rights of workers goes completely against their workchoices policy.

And GST, what a joke. I originally thought that when the GST came in, income tax would be abolished and you would pay your taxes as you spent your money. WRONG!!!! I saw a tiny drop in tax on my pay slip when it came in and then have been taxed to buggery ever since.
Take petrol for example. You pay an excise tax on every litre of fuel you buy, then GST is slapped on top. So you are getting taxed on the tax you are paying. Double dipping bastards!

There's a reason Australia has a strong economy now and I believe that it is simply because we have been taxed to buggery. The government is sitting on a whopping tax surplus and I can't see any of it coming back my way.

I think it is great that Rudd has now been given the chance to show us what he's got. And some 'younger blood' running the country hopefully will be a good thing.
I completely agree with Narxysus in that things aren't just going to change overnight. And as he has said, the people of Australia will get to decide whether the Labor party has done a good job at the next election.

Rant over!
Dan.

[Colby]

All i can say is, if it turns to shit i'm going to canada    dont even have to vote there.

But of course this is all long run speculation.  With all the things Howard government brought in, it was spread over 10 years so wasnt as noticable, similarly i'm sure the things the new government bring in will be over at least the 4 years if they happen at all.

My scepticism is mainly from the history of every previous Labour government since the 60's, I'm interested to see what Rudd and team can do, but have doubts that his term will generally be diferent from any other Labour government.

At least Chasers get to sleep in every morning... I dont think rudd goes for morning walks.

[Milford]

at least now we wont hear labor die hards complaining about rising interest rates

[thumbtack]

dont blame me, i voted for the fishing and lifestyle party 

[dave-trx]

Looks like Johnnys propaganda worked on some people. So much for being the smart country. Some people cant even think for themselves.

So long Johnny, so long Costello.

Wonder when those big bad union bosses are going to come around to your hour house and blow and blow and blow your house down.

[Febrile]

And what has everyone got against the unions anyway?

And GST, what a joke. I originally thought that when the GST came in, income tax would be abolished and you would pay your taxes as you spent your money. WRONG!!!! I saw a tiny drop in tax on my pay slip when it came in and then have been taxed to buggery ever since.
Take petrol for example. You pay an excise tax on every litre of fuel you buy, then GST is slapped on top. So you are getting taxed on the tax you are paying. Double dipping bastards!

There's a reason Australia has a strong economy now and I believe that it is simply because we have been taxed to buggery. The government is sitting on a whopping tax surplus and I can't see any of it coming back my way.

I don't really understand why people complain about tax so much.  It pays for the society we have.  It may not come back to you directly, but it does indirectly, and it goes to other people as well.

I think it would be nice if we all earned, and were taxed, the same amount.  Humans are all equal (except for people with special needs, i.e. disabled), so why should anyone need more money than anyone else?

[hrmmmm]

But is some of our tax not going to other state's like QLD, one year QLD got something like eight million dollars from NSW taxes, all so they can have cheaper fuel. I don't see how this is coming back to me indirectly or indirectly for that matter

I do agree with you though narx, we are all human, why are we not taxed equally, the rich get hardly any tax and the low income workers are getting taxed to buggery.

[greenbird]

I don't really understand why people complain about tax so much.  It pays for the society we have.  It may not come back to you directly, but it does indirectly, and it goes to other people as well.

Yep, i love it when my tax money funds some low life centre-link bum's meth habit.......

[Smiley Of Terror]

I think it would be nice if we all earned, and were taxed, the same amount.  Humans are all equal (except for people with special needs, i.e. disabled), so why should anyone need more money than anyone else?

that's rather marxist

[cruizer]

I don't really understand why people complain about tax so much.  It pays for the society we have.  It may not come back to you directly, but it does indirectly, and it goes to other people as well.

I find that funny. I think some people complain about tax because nearly half of there money gets taken away and palmed off to some dole bludger in many cases.

The rich get richer and poor get poorer? Its because the poor sit around on there asses and complain how poor and hard done they are and put there hand out to the govt. while the 'rich' work hard and then get half their money taen to provide for the poor.

Looks like Johnnys propaganda worked on some people. So much for being the smart country. Some people cant even think for themselves.

The way I see it is Australia was going fine, why change it. Thats where my media and propaganda biased preference comes from 

[Milford]

I don't really understand why people complain about tax so much.  It pays for the society we have.  It may not come back to you directly, but it does indirectly, and it goes to other people as well.

I think it would be nice if we all earned, and were taxed, the same amount.  Humans are all equal (except for people with special needs, i.e. disabled), so why should anyone need more money than anyone else?

what exactly are you trying to argue for?
lets just all hold hands and sing songs of friendship! that would seem to please you. Allthough handicapped people arent allowed to sing because they arent equal with us norms.

[xxxx]

the rich get hardly any tax and the low income workers are getting taxed to buggery.

you couldnt be more wrong! low income earners (sub 35k per year) are paying bugger all tax! 15 cents per dollar (less with family tax breaks) if i remember correctly, now tell me how that is unfair when people earning over 75k are paying more like 45 cents per dollar.

i voted liberal and am quite peeved that kevin rudd was elected. John howard has done a good job thus far, so why get rid of him to somebody with no experience? makes no sense to me

[greenbird]

ehh, this is an argument with absolutely no end.
Everyone lives differently, everyone has different jobs and lifestyles and it all comes down to personal opinion.
No matter which party gets in, there will be lots of things happen that affect us all. Some good, some bad..... That's life!

[Smiley Of Terror]

what exactly are you trying to argue for?
lets just all hold hands and sing songs of friendship! that would seem to please you. Allthough handicapped people arent allowed to sing because they arent equal with us norms.

you're jumping the gun a little, I think the reference he made to the "people with special needs i.e disabled" was purely from a financial viewpoint.. rather than stating they are lesser than us norms.

so why get rid of him to somebody with no experience? makes no sense to me

'cause the majority of the voting population of Australia believe it's time for him to move on... I think you'll find not one Prime Minister has had experience as a Prime Minister at the beginning of their first term as Prime Minister... that.. would make no sense.

[minimikee]

Its a common view held that treasurer' arent trust worthy.

Besides, if you vote for a labor government you are sure you are getting Kevin Rudd as a full term PM, Howard has made it very clear he is leaving once elected. I do have to say though that the Howard government skewed the working environment in favour of the employer, now its time to have the workers in charge for a bit, all workers demand as a rule is fair pay and working environment and really whats so bad about that??

[stretch]

ehh, this is an argument with absolutely no end.
Everyone lives differently, everyone has different jobs and lifestyles and it all comes down to personal opinion.
No matter which party gets in, there will be lots of things happen that affect us all. Some good, some bad..... That's life!

This sums it up pretty well.

Although this may be an interesting and educational thread for politically dislexsic people like me, shy of showing a video of either Kevin Rudd or John Howard clubbing a baby seal no one on this site is going to even come close to changing anyones opinion. We are all too stubborn.

[Febrile]

that's rather marxist

I know, it was an impulse thought, but it's motivated by a strong dislike I have for rampant individualistic consumerism.  So you don't have your tax dollars back - now you can't have that fancy new Merc?  What a shame.  Basically, there's an amount of stuff we each need to survive.  It varies (eg. disabled people might need a wheelchair), but in general, we should all be able to be happy with a roughly equivalent amount of stuff.  Anything over that that we can consume does not serve to make us any richer, in a human sense.

I also dislike the shaky link between hard work and high pay.  Consider the disparity between people working the same jobs living in metropolitan Perth, and those working up in the mining towns.  Same job, just higher labour demand = higher pay.  What about people who do the same job between firms, but get paid differently?  And what about professions like stock brokers, who do little more than take guesses for a living, but if they strike lucky might earn heaps of dough, or bail out.  It doesn't make sense.  And I'm sure there's a fuckload of mechanics, labourers and such who would wonder why, even as they come home knackered from a tough day's work, that they are not earning as much as executives who sit in offices and guide corporate ships along without equivalent exertions.

With all the wealth in the world, it's strange that we all still feel we have to spend the majority of our adult lives slaving away at the coal face, only to retire and have some time to enjoy life when we are old and decrepit.  Why don't we all work a little less, spread the wealth around a little more, so that we all can enjoy simpler, easier lives?

I don't know where I'm going with this.  I just get up everyday, and I'm glad I don't have to see many other people in a day, because some just make me weep for the future.

Yep, i love it when my tax money funds some low life centre-link bum's meth habit.......

How about the tax dollars that could fund return-to-work programs?  Or drug rehab?  Or counselling services so that they don't have such a shitty childhood?  Or police so they don't grow up in such a rough neighbourhood?  Or teachers, so they could have a better education?  Or infrastructure, so they don't have to live somewhere with no facilities?

Your resentment for the symptom blinds you to the causes.

[pedro666]

this countrys stuffed./............. mind you its the best country in the world>>>

[cruizer]

I know, it was an impulse thought, but it's motivated by a strong dislike I have for rampant individualistic consumerism.  So you don't have your tax dollars back - now you can't have that fancy new Merc?  What a shame.  Basically, there's an amount of stuff we each need to survive.  It varies (eg. disabled people might need a wheelchair), but in general, we should all be able to be happy with a roughly equivalent amount of stuff.  Anything over that that we can consume does not serve to make us any richer, in a human sense.

I also dislike the shaky link between hard work and high pay.  Consider the disparity between people working the same jobs living in metropolitan Perth, and those working up in the mining towns.  Same job, just higher labour demand = higher pay.  What about people who do the same job between firms, but get paid differently?  And what about professions like stock brokers, who do little more than take guesses for a living, but if they strike lucky might earn heaps of dough, or bail out.  It doesn't make sense.  And I'm sure there's a fuckload of mechanics, labourers and such who would wonder why, even as they come home knackered from a tough day's work, that they are not earning as much as executives who sit in offices and guide corporate ships along without equivalent exertions.

I think its maybe not about the physical exertion of your job, but maybe how much your job is in demand and the demand for your skills. An executive would deal with incredible stress when making decisions and is required to make decisions that will benefit a huge company. A miner is expected to do physical labour.


Btw I want to be a stockbroker 

[noss]

- Higher intrest rates, hence first home out of question, but rent will go up also.

it was shown on the abc 2 or 3 weeksa go that over the last 20 years, across both labor and liberal governments, the interest rates averaged to be exactly the same.. so yes there were peaks and troughs, but overall both parties were able to maintain the exact same rate.

- Selling off australian public investments to private companies.

um.. john howard.. telstra.. hello!

[Smiley Of Terror]

With all the wealth in the world, it's strange that we all still feel we have to spend the majority of our adult lives slaving away at the coal face, only to retire and have some time to enjoy life when we are old and decrepit.  Why don't we all work a little less, spread the wealth around a little more, so that we all can enjoy simpler, easier lives?

I agree with you in the theory, but it'll take alot of work to change the system that is geared towards consumerism and personal gains.

How about the tax dollars that could fund return-to-work programs?  Or drug rehab?  Or counselling services so that they don't have such a shitty childhood?  Or police so they don't grow up in such a rough neighbourhood?  Or teachers, so they could have a better education?  Or infrastructure, so they don't have to live somewhere with no facilities?

nah, Australia totally prefers to have a tax surplus just sitting there waiting to come back to us at the end of the financial year.

[Febrile]

but maybe how much your job is in demand and the demand for your skills.

That's precisely my point.  Brickies can still do just as good a job when there is a housing construction slump, so why is it fair that they should earn less in those periods?  Equally, the power large corporations have to pay CEOs etc is not necessarily correlated with either the work the CEO does, nor the social value of the company - it's correlated to how much money the firm can make.  More profits = higher salaries. 

I agree with you in the theory, but it'll take alot of work to change the system that is geared towards consumerism and personal gains.

That's not a good reason to not try, though.

[cruizer]

I say....agree to disagree 

[Smiley Of Terror]

That's precisely my point.  Brickies can still do just as good a job when there is a housing construction slump, so why is it fair that they should earn less in those periods?  Equally, the power large corporations have to pay CEOs etc is not necessarily correlated with either the work the CEO does, nor the social value of the company - it's correlated to how much money the firm can make.  More profits = higher salaries. 

like "golden handshakes" where the retiring CEO gets paid some stupendous sum for leaving the company.. ON TOP of their superannuation. just doesn't make sense to me. does the 65 year old employee who has worked for telstra for 30 years get 50 million dollars when they're forced to retire?

[bogan_bob]

dont blame me, i voted for the fishing and lifestyle party 

LOL and i voted for the what women want party 

[Ammerty]

oh well, looks like johnny buttscab has been finally ousted , good ridance to short bushy-eyebrowed Prime Minister's I say.

I think after 11 yrs or so Johnny has had chance after chance to improve Australia, he brought in GST when he said he wouldn't, he brought in those stupid IR laws which Rudd will abolish and he sent our troops to that stupid war on Terror that we don't belong in because G W Bush said to go, not that I don't think our troops are doing a good job, I just don't think they belong there, and Rudd will bring them home to their families.

Rudd might be good for Australia, how will we know until he gets a fair crack at the leadership, the problem is people want howard out but then vote for him and whinge about the stupid unreasonable crap that he is doing.

oh so wrong - first of all - GST was the reason johnny got into power and one of the main factors in our economy is doing so well

second - rudd isn't taking our troops out of iraq and afghanistan - and if he was in power when the whole "war on terror" shit started he woulda sent them there anyway because it was seen to be in the best intrests of australia for us to help (also don't you remember the australian outcry that wanted to send our troops there after 9/11) - and why are you complaining bout it anyway - we've lost one guy in a combat situation - someone i happen to actually know personally but given his sacrifice i feel this country and john howard did the right thing

and on top of all that iraq and afghanistan are still having huge problems - not coz we're still in there buit because there are still people fighting for they're ols shitty ways (non-democratic leadership)

congratulatiions australia - you just voted in a guy for no reason - he's gonna stuff up the economy - fuel prices are gonna go through the roof - intrest rates are gonna do the same!!
and as for your troops - there staying put - hahaha - so err... why did we vote for him again??
I love my country but in this case we've made a bad decision!

IMO anyways

- end rant

 

[Rake]

- Selling off australian public investments to private companies.

Wasn't it Liberal who sold off Telstra?

[BILL*69]

Wasn't it Liberal who sold off Telstra?

um.. john howard.. telstra.. hello!

yes it was.

[greenbird]

and why are you complaining bout it anyway - we've lost one guy in a battle situation

Wrong! The tally is 3 troops now....

congratulatiions australia - you just voted in a guy for no reason - he's gonna stuff up the economy - fuel prices are gonna go through the roof - intrest rates are gonna do the same!!

Do you know for certain that interest rates and fuel prices will go through the roof?
I doubt it, so give the guy a chance.
He may well prove you completely wrong....

[xxxx]

i agree with ammerty.


and it was the labour state government (mike rann) in my state of SA who recently sold ETSA (sa's ex-government electiricity supplier) and now we are paying electricity prices that are absolutely through the roof about 3k per year in my familys circumstance. thanks labour, real cool

[BILL*69]

about 3k per year in my familys circumstance.

Do you power the sun's light or some shit??? Fark mang, our bill is like 1.5k MAX i reckon, full year, with 6-7 people living on our property.

[slim]

Congratulations to Rudd.
At least he was elected.

Now when the hell is he going to do as he promised!!

[Smiley Of Terror]

'cause the Australian government directly controls the price of petrol  it's gonna go up either way, just be thankful we aren't paying the same amount as the Germans, last I heard it was the equivalent of $2/L
...and they have one of the strongest economies in the world.

[BILL*69]

Now when the hell is he going to do as he promised!!

Probably NOT within ONE day of his election  

In my opinion, we vote for who we think does a better job running the economy from our perspective (usually meaning they better satisfy our wants/needs). Obviously, not everyone is in the same boat. For the simplest example, if employees want more money, then employers have to fork it out. Therefore better for employees, worse for employers. Finding the right mix is what makes you good.

If we, as society, think it is easy for them to find a good mix, why arent all of us vying for positions in parliament? Because it aint easy.

Fair enough, Ol Johnny got the economy in a great state, but as other people pointed out, he didnt satisfy everyone in doing it. What if K-Rudd keeps the economy in this state and gets rid of unfair dismissal or whatever you dont particularly fancy, where will your vote go then? Im not saying he will or wont, im just saying, theoretically, what if he did?

Its not easy, no one really knows what Peter Costello is like, so why the big fuss anyway?

'cause the Australian government directly controls the price of petrol  it's gonna go up either way, just be thankful we aren't paying the same amount as the Germans, last I heard it was the equivalent of $2/L
...and they have one of the strongest economies in the world.

LPG FTMFW ATM... until it ridiculously increases in price due to levy's etc.

[Ammerty]

Wrong! The tally is 3 troops now....

your wrong mate - i said 'in combat' - as the other 2,  one in training - i knew that guy too - and the other was being an idiot with a gun and shot himself

as for giving him a chance - yeah its a good idea, i'll let him have a go - i just dont trust labour, they've stuffed the economy pretty much everytime they've got into power, but it may change so we'll se what happens...

[Jtas]

For fucks sake, it's Labor, not Labour. 

[BILL*69]

For fucks sake, it's Labor, not Labour. 

Love your contribution Jtas. No really i do, brings a smile everytime 

[phantom]

Isnt it nice that we are having another prolonged heated political discussion.
Pretty much it doesnt matter now, for awhile anyways because the election is over, and we have rudd as prime minister whether we like it or not, but obviously someone wanted him to be pm...otherwise he wouldnt be. and before we start condemning rudd, lets just see what happens and give him a fair go....on a side note...i completely agree with ammerty on the iraq/afghanistan situation. compared to the US casualties, we havent lost that many have we? by the way ...what line of work are you in ammerty, if you dont mind me asking...oh did i mention that the people we have over there are doing the jobs they chose to do and that they believe are important...
now play nicely kids...

[Febrile]

I say....agree to disagree 

What do you disagree with me about, though?  I will admit choosing to work harder and being rewarded for it is a fair proposition, but the way which our society has shaped the circumstances under which this can occur is nebulous and arbitrary.  You don't have to work hard to be paid well, necessarily: often you just have to be lucky, and I don't think that's right.

Something I ponder frequently is how much the CEO of Domino's Australia gets paid.  $700k p/a, apparently.  I work for Domino's.  We sell pizzas.  I earn $12 an hour.  $12 an hour is not much, and selling pizzas to humanity is not a something humanity could not do without.  So why is this one individual earning so much?  Because he helps the shareholders to earn a lot.  The people who already had the money to buy Domino's stock reward those who can generate them even more money, by paying them massive salaries.  Yet without store staff (many of whom are juniors and do a fabulous job and yet get only $7 an hour), the franchise would be nothing, and these people are not specially rewarded.  It makes no sense.

[BILL*69]

What do you disagree with me about, though?  I will admit choosing to work harder and being rewarded for it is a fair proposition, but the way which our society has shaped the circumstances under which this can occur is nebulous and arbitrary.  You don't have to work hard to be paid well, necessarily: often you just have to be lucky, and I don't think that's right.

Something I ponder frequently is how much the CEO of Domino's Australia gets paid.  $700k p/a, apparently.  I work for Domino's.  We sell pizzas.  I earn $12 an hour.  $12 an hour is not much, and selling pizzas to humanity is not a something humanity could not do without.  So why is this one individual earning so much?  Because he helps the shareholders to earn a lot.  The people who already had the money to buy Domino's stock reward those who can generate them even more money, by paying them massive salaries.  Yet without store staff (many of whom are juniors and do a fabulous job and yet get only $7 an hour), the franchise would be nothing, and these people are not specially rewarded.  It makes no sense.

I totally agree.

[cruizer]

What do you disagree with me about, though?  I will admit choosing to work harder and being rewarded for it is a fair proposition, but the way which our society has shaped the circumstances under which this can occur is nebulous and arbitrary.  You don't have to work hard to be paid well, necessarily: often you just have to be lucky, and I don't think that's right.

Something I ponder frequently is how much the CEO of Domino's Australia gets paid.  $700k p/a, apparently.  I work for Domino's.  We sell pizzas.  I earn $12 an hour.  $12 an hour is not much, and selling pizzas to humanity is not a something humanity could not do without.  So why is this one individual earning so much?  Because he helps the shareholders to earn a lot.  The people who already had the money to buy Domino's stock reward those who can generate them even more money, by paying them massive salaries.  Yet without store staff (many of whom are juniors and do a fabulous job and yet get only $7 an hour), the franchise would be nothing, and these people are not specially rewarded.  It makes no sense.

I just said agree to disagree because I'm sick of argueing (sp?) and I end up getting worked up 

Not wanting to sound rude, but I think you should get I better job. I get paid $15-$20 an hr and I work less than you. Someone as smart as you deserves a better job (I'm not being a smartass, I'm being serious)

[Febrile]

I just said agree to disagree because I'm sick of argueing (sp?) and I end up getting worked up 

Not wanting to sound rude, but I think you should get I better job. I get paid $15-$20 an hr and I work less than you. Someone as smart as you deserves a better job (I'm not being a smartass, I'm being serious)

Well I probe because I like to know why people think like they think.  I think a lot of people think the way they do because of the way society is structured - like we all have one box-size to fit in.

I just finished uni, so I'll probably start looking for another job soon, but Domino's are going to pay me $18 an hour to do shift-running (as opposed to delivery driving).  I'll stay a while anyway because a) the working days are flexible and b) I work from around 5pm-1am, can go to bed at 4am, get up at 12pm, and have all of the afternoon to do stuff, then go to work.  That way, I can use my best time (when I am most energised) for stuff that I personally benefit from, not for stuff that I do because some chump pays me to.  Plus, I love being out in the night.  So for now, it'll stay this way, because it makes my days nicer.

[dave-trx]

Well I probe because I like to know why people think like they think.  I think a lot of people think the way they do because of the way society is structured - like we all have one box-size to fit in.

Ie Ammerty and Cruizer. Johnny said that Labor did this and did that. They will wreck the economy and there big bad Union boss mates will be on TV looking bad because johnny said so.

[cruizer]

Well I probe because I like to know why people think like they think.  I think a lot of people think the way they do because of the way society is structured - like we all have one box-size to fit in.

I just finished uni, so I'll probably start looking for another job soon, but Domino's are going to pay me $18 an hour to do shift-running (as opposed to delivery driving).  I'll stay a while anyway because a) the working days are flexible and b) I work from around 5pm-1am, can go to bed at 4am, get up at 12pm, and have all of the afternoon to do stuff, then go to work.  That way, I can use my best time (when I am most energised) for stuff that I personally benefit from, not for stuff that I do because some chump pays me to.  Plus, I love being out in the night.  So for now, it'll stay this way, because it makes my days nicer.

Fair enough, i used to do delivery driving but petrol was costing me too much   . $18 an hour sounds pretty good though!

Like I've said before, in my opinion Liberal was doing a good job, and i didn't really see why I should vote to change it. Workchoices etc has not really affected me, but I can understand why people would vote Labor if they had been affected.

[B4]

your wrong mate - i said 'in combat' - as the other 2,  one in training - i knew that guy too - and the other was being an idiot with a gun and shot himself

sorry bud, but you are mistaken.

[noss]

what i want to know, is why are all the obvious liberal supporters being useless wankers and causing arguments and just generally being whiny little bitches? not just here, but everywhere i go.

i dont remember non-liberal supporters causing such a fuss when the government changed to/remained liberal.

all this talk about 'every federal labor government i ever known' crikey.. most of you lot are too young to have ever known an in power federal labor government.

talk about a bunch of sore bloody losers. the only one of you that isnt a sore loser is the man himself john howard, he showed a lot of dignity in defeat. you lot are just acting like tossers.


just for the record i'm not a pro labor or a pro liberal person, i'm just a person.. but the amount of whinging from pro liberal people since the election is simply pathetic.

smite away asshats.

[slim]

What sucks is the 2 party "choice" to run the country
Sure there are the minor parties but its still between Labor ( what happen to the real Labour) and Liberals/Coalition
Wish there were more too choose from

[SSS]

vote for me next time, asshats. 

Whilst i have strong doubts about what labor will do, i am not totally against them, even though i voted liberal.
The government doesn't control interest rates, it can influence them based on how the economy is running, but apart from that, they have fuck all to do with it.

john howard fucked it up for himself when he announced that he would be retiring after the election; the proper [i seem to suffer from tourettes] act would have been to keep it to himself until after he was re-elected. Lying about GST, IR laws etc also didn't help.

IF the country starts going down the hole from bad choices from this new government, then we can start blaming Ruddy McRuddster. Then vote liberal next election.

[Jtas]

well said noss

.... Then vote liberal next election.

Now there's a scary thought, Tony Abbott or Malcolm Turnbull as Prime Minister? 

[SSS]

Depends IF labor fuck up. 

[Sticky]

I was disapointed when alexander downer pulled out fo the race, imagine him as PM! there'd be a day where everyone could wear high heels and fishnets and not get laughed at

[Smiley Of Terror]

both parties are too alike for me to argue about. really at the moment one apparently benefits corporate level business and the other benefits unions. neither however... seem to be giving the small business much though.. but that might all be to do with market shares and the globalisation of business.. shrug.

[SpidaWings]

I think it would be nice if we all earned, and were taxed, the same amount.  Humans are all equal (except for people with special needs, i.e. disabled), so why should anyone need more money than anyone else?

i know its been forever since i ever made a peep but i figured i might make some noise and then go back into my observing tower.
But the idea of everyone being equal doesn't quite work when it comes to making a living.
If everyone got paid the same then why would people do dangerous jobs in for example, a mine, when they could be quite safe in a nice aircon office sitting on their arse.

People wont want to further educate themselves to achieve more money if there is no need to, because who would want to be stuck studying to become a manager of something with stress and tones of responsibility and the existance of your company depending on you when you could live an easier life being below the management.  So you'll find the intellect of our country will drop.

Only the major companies will be able to afford to pay people because what about a  shop that will only make 1 grand on a good day wont be able to pay all its staff and the rent at the same time. So then our country will be run by the likes of woolworths and coles (but then again we are getting close to that)

In a society as you suggest, where does all the profit that is made go? because you cant sell absolutely everything for the exact same price, so if everyone is paid the same, there will be profit all over the place that wont filter down to workers. so where does it go? big guys at the top i would guess, or do you suggest that the profits go to the government? so you think the government will spend more on services for the people? rubbish.

[Febrile]

Your statement about danger pay is fair.  But it is in no way related to luck, is it?  You couldn't say that you were lucky to get paid more, because it's a tradeoff for the danger you deal with.

Also, I am doubtful of the claim that people won't educate themselves but for money.  You can learn for the sake of learning and bettering yourself for yourself.

Profit is the difference between the cost of production and the price which is paid for the good or service.  You decrease profit by decreasing prices.  If you don't need profit, then you don't need huge margins.  Also, why can't we sell all goods for the same price, at appropriate proportions?  Prices are just an evolution of a barter system, where a half a pig could be traded for a haircut.

I hate to say it, but your type of thinking it what I was getting at above when I said "I think a lot of people think the way they do because of the way society is structured - like we all have one box-size to fit in."  Things don't have to be the way they are.  They don't even have to be similar.  It's just that they are like they are, and we are so used to it that a dramatically different system causes everyone to go, "HOW CAN!?!"

Edit: In a convenient coincidence: consider this 20 minute speech by Sir Ken Robinson at the 2006 Technology, Entertainment and Design conference about creativity and education as a demonstration of what I mean by thinking outside the regular channels.

[SSS]

I think it would be nice if we all earned, and were taxed, the same amount.  Humans are all equal (except for people with special needs, i.e. disabled), so why should anyone need more money than anyone else?

Sounds like true communism to me. Seems to have worked well for some nations, like the Soviet Union. Hmmm...wonder why it all went belly up? 

All humans are not equal. Some choose to work harder than others, and the rewards clearly pay off for them. Who really cares if the CEO of Domino's gets an annual salary of $700k pa.
He obviously worked his ass off to get to that position (or was VERY lucky); i hardly think he would be on easy street job wise in that kind of role.

Risk and/or Responsibility = Reward. Simple as that.

[noss]

I hate to say it, but your type of thinking it what I was getting at above

lol.. yeh, she is, along with 99% of everyone else on the planet.

Prices are just an evolution of a barter system, where a half a pig could be traded for a haircut.

yes, but if you know that the bloke down the street is going to do a better job of your haircut, and he was asking for a whole pig, then you're going to give him a whole pig aren't you? why would you not pay more for better goods and services? if someone in your 'perfect' situation made more effort with what they're making to produce a better product, they're going to want more pigs.. it might be the exact same product, it will look and feel the same, therefore it would be of the same "appropriate proportion" as you put it, but the better quality item wont break, where as someone that has spent less effort, selling their items for the same price, their stuff is breaks more often. so you go buy the better quality stuff.. its plainly common sense.. that said, the maker of the better quality items has every right to ask for a few more pigs, within reason of course.

or alternatively, people will stop going to the guy that makes the shoddy products, so he wont be getting many pigs, cause everyone knows his product is crap and they're shopping else where.. maybe he is trying his absolute hardest and as far as he is concerned, he is not capable of making his item any better than he already does, simply because he does not have the ability to do so.. what is he going to do to make sales? he isnt going to keep asking for the same amount of pigs cause ultimately, he isnt going to be able to feed his family.. he's going to drop his prices to get customers back.

but of course, there would be laws in place in your society to prevent this, the people that make the better products will get jack of it and most likely revolt, just what everyone needs.

i guess though when you get literally torn to shreds by the people who have better skills/make more effort that feel your idealistic society is holding them back.. because your community will most likely be away on some far off planet (or korea, china, cuba maybe), we wont be able to hear you scream 

awesome. sounds great.

[cheezus]

Yes mental masterbation noss

 

[noss]

lol i cant believe you actually have 56 posts.

[Smiley Of Terror]

lol.. yeh, she is, along with 99% of everyone else on the planet.

99% is a bit optimistic... y'know China is still socialist and they take up one sixth... also seems to be working pretty good for them too.. what with them being one of the strongest economies in the world.

[cruizer]

The economy might be strong but are they happy....

[Budgie]

Plus their strong economy is destroying their entire country's natural beauty.

[Smiley Of Terror]

The economy might be strong but are they happy....

you ask them. they aren't doing too bad for themselves, China just bought a huge percentage of the worlds lead supply for building new houses.. I mean, no worse than the rest of south east Asia.

Plus their strong economy is destroying their entire country's natural beauty.

Australia still has the worst pollution per capita.

[noss]

kids! dont lick the walls of your houses of lead! 

[Budgie]

Australia still has the worst pollution per capita.

Indeed, but we have no-where fucking near as many people breathing the air and drinking the water in our country... versus what their natural environment has to cope with, with their 1.3 billion people.

[Colby]

I'm sure australia has more trees and pollution reversing area than most countries.

Kevin Rudd is still a geek and Julia Gillard still sounds like Kath & Kim.
Mr Howard is still the prime minister... for now at least.

[chr1S]

i'm going to wait and see if rudd stuffs things up to start whinging.

[bogan_bob]

i'm going to wait and see if rudd stuffs things up to start whinging.

already happening.

ratifying kyoto will be one of the first things he does? Ummm just change all that legislation that needs to be changed, push through the new bills that need to be created, consult the state governements etc etc, sure that will only take a week or two. If he'd done his research he'd have realised theres more to it than just signing a piece of paper. So unless he is going to do very few things in the fist half (at least) of this term, i dont see how this is possible.

rip up workchoices? need to wait at least a year til the senate changes as a result of the election just gone and you might be able to get that through. And i was lead to beleive that he only wanted to change parts of the legislation not get rid of the whole lot.

but i am willing to give him a chance on his policies. I still hate him for being a slimy, media schmoozing, tin tin look alike shmuck but i will give him a chance for now....

[slim]

already happening.

ratifying kyoto will be one of the first things he does? Ummm just change all that legislation that needs to be changed, push through the new bills that need to be created, consult the state governements etc etc, sure that will only take a week or two. If he'd done his research he'd have realised theres more to it than just signing a piece of paper. So unless he is going to do very few things in the fist half (at least) of this term, i dont see how this is possible.

rip up workchoices? need to wait at least a year til the senate changes as a result of the election just gone and you might be able to get that through. And i was lead to beleive that he only wanted to change parts of the legislation not get rid of the whole lot.

but i am willing to give him a chance on his policies. I still hate him for being a slimy, media schmoozing, tin tin look alike shmuck but i will give him a chance for now....

well parliament isn't sitting again till next year so he can't push anything through for a while.
He needs a majority vote in the senate and Houses to pass a law. Something I'm not sure he has, unlike Johnny who enjoyed the last 4yrs of reign with little resistance in the parliament houses.

Labor has said that removing work choices will take more time then 1 election period, so 4+ yrs.
Means they just want our vote next time around.

[Colby]

Down the shitter yet?

I'm sure those of you with mortgages are keeping your fingers crossed about the ever increasing intrest rate.

And what is this sorry crap?  I think its just a ploy to try get the aboriginals off the parlament lawn... it wont work... they'll just ask for money next.

I think it will be funny to see if Rudd kisses up to the new American president.

[Milford]

Down the shitter yet?

I'm sure those of you with mortgages are keeping your fingers crossed about the ever increasing intrest rate.

And what is this sorry crap?  I think its just a ploy to try get the aboriginals off the parlament lawn... it wont work... they'll just ask for money next.

I think it will be funny to see if Rudd kisses up to the new American president.

this sorry business is going to become the biggest farce of this decade, the aboriginals have already said that they now want a sorry day every year and a commemorative coin.

the government is going to give an inch and then get dragged in for a mile.

[greenbird]

The Labor party can't be held at all responsible for any interest rate rises in the short term.
Send your blame for that one to John Howard, as he has left our new prime minister in a bit of a shitty situation i believe......
Labour haven't been in power long enough yet to cause any real change to the way our economy is going.
All in all, I think Kevin Rudd is doing a good job so far and is pretty well sticking to what he said he would do, before he got voted in. It seems to me that he has probably made more progress in the last 2 months that the liberals probably did in the last 2 years!
A bit of fresh, younger blood running the country will hopefully prove to be a positive thing.
Howard had been in power for too long, had gone stale and mouldy and become useless.
My opinion only.
Dan.

[BILL*69]

I also agree that nothing can be blamed on Krudd yet.

As an example, Kev wasnt even in power at the time that my gas price rose about 10c a litre, im not going to blame Johnny Howard, but i k now it wasnt Krudd's fault. I think hes doing fine, but it hasnt been long enough to judge just yet.

Once again, this is also my personal opinion.

[dave-trx]

Cruizer how is the propaganda wagon going, are you there yet.

As for saying sorry, I wont be and I dont think Kev should say sorry. I haven't done anything wrong and I sure Rudd never did either.

While we are at it, why dont we sorry to the American Ingines (Indian's) or the South African natives.

Kev is doing a great job, I agree with Dan aswell. Kev has done more then Johnny in 2 months.

Dave.

[cruizer]

Propaganda wagon? Pretty sure I'm entitled to my own opinion.

I can see the next 5 years will spent blaming the previous govt. for what has happened. Anyone else in Adelaide been inconvenienced by numerous train strikes? That didn't happen during liberal govt.

I guess we'll see in a few years how he's going once he's stopped complaining with what he has been left with. Complaining about high inflation? We'll see in a few years.

Anyone willing to have their tax money going to the poor deprived aboriginals because a sorry wasn't enough? I guess that is another debate though.

But who knows, my opinion could be wrong and could be a good change.

[greenbird]

I can see the next 5 years will spent blaming the previous govt. for what has happened. Anyone else in Adelaide been inconvenienced by numerous train strikes? That didn't happen during liberal govt.

Whoa! Settle down there Cruiser.
You can't blame K Rudd and the federal Labor party for public transport issues in SA. Blame our 'Muppet' premier Mike Rann for that one. State and federal governments are two completely different things.
Personally I am happy with the new federal labor party, but would like really like to see the Liberals take power in the next SA state election. Mike Rann is a useless idiot. He's piss farted around when it comes to water issues and instead, we get a tram that now travels an extra 500m (and lost 2 lanes down King William road). Oh, and how many millions were wasted with all of those proposals for a grandstand in the parklands. Like we really needed that.....

As for blaming previous governments for the shit fight that we are facing today... Well, that is bound to happen to a certain extent, and would occur no matter who is in power.
Dan.

[dave-trx]

I will second that, public transport is controlled by the state governments.

Cruizer Johnny is in a retirement village somewhere now. If you love him that much, go and help him with his lawn and his lawn bowls.

Johnny was and always has been a ignorant little prick. So long Johnny.

[cruizer]

All I can say is I'm over politics 

[thumbtack]

All I can say is I'm over politics 

hah yeah pretty much. doesnt matter how much whinging you do you cant change anything. so why bother worrying about it.

[greenbird]

All I can say is I'm over politics 

Can't say i blame you Cruiser!
We pay our taxes to pay the wages of these clowns, who sometimes seem to do not much more than sit in parliament and bicker like school children!

[bogan_bob]

hah yeah pretty much. doesnt matter how much whinging you do you cant change anything. so why bother worrying about it.

pretty sure its a democracy and if enough people whinge, change will come. Its just you cant please all minorities, there will always be someone pissed off about some govt policy, somewhere.

And i dont understand the apology, its just going to open the floodgates for compo claims, the states are already begining to hand out (SA had its first in the last couple of weeks). I dont think we should pay for previous mistakes, although we already are through providing free housing, health care, counselling, dole etc. More efort needs to be spent on improving their self confidence, so they get the motivation to become better members of society, while preserving their ancient culture (i know that doesnt sound right, i dont mean it in a derogetary way)

[phantom]

I will second that, public transport is controlled by the state governments.

Cruizer Johnny is in a retirement village somewhere now. If you love him that much, go and help him with his lawn and his lawn bowls.

Johnny was and always has been a ignorant little prick. So long Johnny.

dont knock it! many a hung over sunday morning i'd be cheering (quietly) for the aussies in the international lawn bowls championships on abc

[Budgie]

I should start a 'fix the bacchus marsh rd' petition... if they don't fix it, i'm going to bomb Rudd's house

*looks around for ASIO agents*

[Habibosaurus]

*looks around for ASIO agents*

They're in front of my house in the token "Pizza Van or Bob's Plumbing.....

[dave-trx]

They're in front of my house in the token "Pizza Van or Bob's Plumbing.....

Perhaps its the name Habib that makes them think your a threat to national security.

[f8tal02118]

this country's stuffed./............. mind you its the best country in the world>>>

i have to agree with the best country in the world as most country's are pretty poor or  have wars still going  over oil you should know what country iam on about
and our Medicare system is pretty good to most its better then America as Americans don't have Medicare cover or that instead a lot of people of there die because they can afforded simple operations as they have no  health care cover  like most work places of there don't have work cover so if they hurt there selfs there screwed.
 our doll system is not bad   like most handicapped people are on the doll as some cant work e.g a friend who was born with a birth defect ( crows feet doctor did a bog job he has in dents in the bottom of his feet) that has been fixed but they wont hire him because of it. like most places don't hire  people that are over weight as there at a high risk of a heart attack diebeaties (tired so my spelling is crap) and so for thats why some are on the doll as work places don't want over weight people as it will cost there company  money  if they have a heart attack at work or what ever