Author Topic: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?  (Read 32449 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline VladIvanovic

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Karma: +14/-12
  • Gender: Male
    • My Company/Personal Website
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #30 on: Jul 4, 2006, 07:03PM »
its all about the definition of "drift".

this the way i see drifting....do you see any FWD cars in D1? no....and there never will be, because they cant drift, they can "slide" but in no way, shape or form could they ever perfom feats see within the D1 comp.

i dont see how a cartoon can make people think that a certain car can "drift".

if you had read what I said earlier... Japans Drift King who Judges D1 helps out with the anime, and if he thought it was wrong he would have put his foot down and said so, but he didnt did he? probably becuase he had nothing against FWD's doing a style of drifting... and thats why it made it into the cartoon the way it did didnt it?

and if you think about, they use the handbrake plenty in RWD drift, the only difference being the front wheels dont pull in RWD cars, and in FWD the wheels do pull so keeping the car kicked out is a lot harder, and in an AWD its just about continous shifting of the weight to keep the rear outwards. And also Handbrake drift is one style of drifting, theres also others, and just because a RWD accomplishes all of them on a whole better doesnt mean that theyre the only cars that can drift...

Offline Rake

  • vrrrmm sssssh pstch
  • antrx cruise monkey
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3216
  • Karma: +60/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • quack
    • http://www.tldr.com.au
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #31 on: Jul 4, 2006, 08:50PM »
I get your point here rake, but you haven't really thought it through properly...
The person that says the "Chef's food sucks" is in the best position to be critical.

words words words


I realise this and I fully understand what you're saying.

BUT.

You must realise that what I said was meant to be interepreted in one way / one context, when you've interepreted it in another way. Ok you do realise what I did mean to say but why go finding flaws?

So while you are not wrong, I must ask that you try and realise and understand precisely the point that I am trying to make because as far as I care that's all that is relevant, regardless of how well or poorly I may have communicated it. While I'm sure there is a better example, I can't think of one.

In my opinion some people need more basic, other-topic examples because somebody will be too dumb to read and think about a black-and-white explaination of one's thoughts. I say that I think people are quick to badmouth drifting when I believe they don't necessarily realise that it's probably a good deal more difficult than they realise - and because of this, it does deserve some appreciation. Unfortunately, some people don't even think for a moment "Maybe he's right", or offer anything constructive to counter / debate me ("That's not true, because.."). They just come out with "OMG DRIFT SUCKS LAWL". Which, no offense, is what has happened here. Not only was what I said virtually ignored, but you went on to try and be politically correct about a simple example I made to get my point across. ffs!
« Last Edit: Jul 4, 2006, 09:01PM by Rake »

Offline Jtas

  • Sarcasminator
  • antrx cruise monkey
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Karma: +69/-28
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #32 on: Jul 4, 2006, 09:34PM »
I tried to keep my point really subtle, but I guess I made it far too subtle... 

I was trying to stir up a debate on the long term / main stream popularity of drifting in Australia.
(by reusing your analogy of chef's food/customers dissatisfaction)

Out.

Offline Rake

  • vrrrmm sssssh pstch
  • antrx cruise monkey
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3216
  • Karma: +60/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • quack
    • http://www.tldr.com.au
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #33 on: Jul 5, 2006, 02:30AM »
Ok fair enough. Sorry to vent.

Offline peeto

  • antrx.com junior member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • R31 Pintara
    • peeto.net
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #34 on: Jul 5, 2006, 03:53AM »
My two cents. My first cent is that I think drifting could have a place in mainstream Australia because drifting does seem to allow faster travel in certain situations and thus can be taken seriously. Drifting certainly seems advantageous when there are many tight curves in the road or when the road is slippery (wet). However I know I am wrong because drifting has already taken off and mostly because it really does look cool.

My second cent is about FWD drifting. Firstly, control is essential in drifting. Anyone who has actually driven both RWD and FWD more than once will know you have easier control in FWD than RWD when the drive wheels are spinning. It's simple physics, the steering and power are applied directly together on the same wheel, whereas the RWD has a large physical distance between the power and the steering wheels. While a pro drifter might maintain control regardless of R/F/AWD, the beginners without an endless supply of quarter panels might get more fun and less bang for their buck when practicing drifting in a FWD.

Offline Sticky

  • Bad Luck Magnet
  • qld local moderator
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3867
  • Karma: +111/-14
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #35 on: Jul 5, 2006, 08:17PM »

My second cent is about FWD drifting. Firstly, control is essential in drifting. Anyone who has actually driven both RWD and FWD more than once will know you have easier control in FWD than RWD when the drive wheels are spinning. It's simple physics, the steering and power are applied directly together on the same wheel, whereas the RWD has a large physical distance between the power and the steering wheels. While a pro drifter might maintain control regardless of R/F/AWD, the beginners without an endless supply of quarter panels might get more fun and less bang for their buck when practicing drifting in a FWD.
there is no way you would have more control in FWD than a RWD, personally i feel far more in control of the 180, than i ever did in my TRX im sorry to say, when the drive wheels are spinning, there is no way you could change direction in FWD car, to me that does not represent control.


Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline CS2rex

  • antrx.com full member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Karma: +5/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • formerly mark_sss
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #36 on: Jul 5, 2006, 08:28PM »
i think wat peeto is trying to say if ur loosing the back in a rwd its harder to control than spinning the wheels in a front wheel thats understeering, due to different uses of the accelerator.

come off the accelerator in a rwd u run the risk of spinning, u come off it in a front wheel to get traction, making it easier to "control"

so in effect i think he is trying to say its easier to REGAIN control once its lost?? i dunno thats just my spin on his post

Offline eurisko

  • Frankenmotor Builder
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1520
  • Karma: +66/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Oldschool and Newstyle
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #37 on: Jul 5, 2006, 09:18PM »
It's simple physics, the steering and power are applied directly together on the same wheel, whereas the RWD has a large physical distance between the power and the steering wheels.

Uh.... I have no idea where you learned physics from... but I sugest you re-read the textbook... as well as maybe some kinematics lectures...

Now I have no interest whatsoever in drifting... i strongly regard Rallying to be a true test of skill... then F1. But when someone brings up mal-digested information... it sparks my attention (maybe it brings out the Flame warrior in me  :P)

The distance between the wheels (aka wheelbase) will only determine the turning radius. Small cars, small wheelbase, small turning radius. Trucks, big wheel base, massive turning radius.

Where the driving force comes from, doesn't affect how easily controlled the car becomes in regular driving. The weight distribution and position of the motor affect the control.

A front wheel drive car has the engine at the front, causing a disbalance. Exaggerated, it basically means all the control is in the front wheels, and the rear wheels are basically just floating. Hard turns will make the back end whip out easily, if traction is held. When traction is lost, the mass of the engine will make the car continue a straight line (Understeer).

Rear wheel drive has a better distribution for weight, almost 50/50. When traction is lost in the rear wheels, the rear of the car will whip out (oversteer) but the front wheels can still be used to reposition the front of the car. This provides much easier control of the rear of the car, hence, the vechicle in general.

The best example to see it all done to extremes is rallying. Watch when an AWD vehicle reaches a hairpin. Using left foot brakeing (or line-lock), they lock the front wheels, then apply full throttle to whip out the rear. This is an extreme example of full traction in the front (Locked) and full loss at the back. Full control the entire time. The only way to do that in front wheel drive would be to maintain traction at all times.

Simple.

The Nissubishda will live....

Offline bogan_bob

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +16/-6
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #38 on: Jul 5, 2006, 09:47PM »
Alright. We get the message. FWD can sort of drift. But the thing is they will never compete with the likes of RWD in the real world of drift i.e. D1 or drift Australia, where drifting is done competitively, legally, on the track. So how about people stop abusing the sport, unless you want me to get started on another form of racing such as F1. I doubt FWD will ever have a place in drift competions, so cut your losses and shut up.

How about some of the followers or fans speak up and discuss the standing of the sport in Australia, like how it is the fastest growing motorsport in Australia at the moment or the fact that it is one of the most affordable levels of motorsport you could try your hand at? I for one, as soon as i get my sh!t together and sort out my cars, will be purchasing and/or building my own drift warrior by the end of the year (and i am apparently a uni bum!!).

So people stop dwelling on this FWD cars can or can't drift. Its quite irrelevant to the sport - id firstly like to see a FWD at mallala or the like and secondly see it be competitive with the other cars (which would all be RWD).

BB

http://ozvr4.com - check it out :)

Offline CS2rex

  • antrx.com full member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Karma: +5/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • formerly mark_sss
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #39 on: Jul 5, 2006, 10:19PM »

The best example to see it all done to extremes is rallying. Watch when an AWD vehicle reaches a hairpin. Using left foot brakeing (or line-lock), they lock the front wheels, then apply full throttle to whip out the rear. This is an extreme example of full traction in the front (Locked) and full loss at the back. Full control the entire time. The only way to do that in front wheel drive would be to maintain traction at all times.

when u say front wheels r locked, u mean as in, not turning? if so, not saying ur theory is wrong, but if u take any rwd/awd car and lock the front wheels while turning or approaching a corner, there is no way ur cars gonna take that turn, it becomes jsut like a front wheel drive, understeers and doesnt go anywhere but straight, its only once u come off the brakes, allow the front wheels to spin again that it redirects itself. As in the case of rally cars, the locking of the front means all teh power is at the rear, then the rear end once sliding usually directs it where the driver wants it go anyway

Offline Jono

  • The Wise Man
  • Global Moderator
  • post whore
  • ****
  • Posts: 5748
  • Karma: +159/-40
  • Gender: Male
  • memory boy!
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #40 on: Jul 5, 2006, 10:37PM »
FWD is more intuitive to control when it breaks traction. If your foot is down and it starts understeering, your natural instinct is to back off the throttle, which removes power from the front wheels and transfers more weight of the car to the front wheels, causing them to regain traction. If you're coming into a corner too fast and it starts understeering (as most FWD cars naturally understeer) your instinct is to hit the brakes, which lowers the road speed and the sideways force on the tyres, requiring less traction from them and cancelling the slide.

However in a RWD, if you put too much power down through a corner the car will start oversteering, instinct is to back off and hit the brakes, this causes the front wheels to slow down even more and more often than not the car will spin out. If the back end of a RWD car slides out you MUST keep the power down to control the slide. This goes against a driver's natural instinct so it can end up in some hairy and/or dangerous situations.

RWD and FWD cars require completely different driving styles to control when they're in a slide.

In short: for the average driver, FWD is safer than RWD.
#1 Post Wh0re
pringles was here!

Offline bigpud2012

  • "I drive a pissweak auto"
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
  • Karma: +17/-21
  • Gender: Male
    • RSI - Adelade Sports Imagery - Clipsal 500 Classic Adelaide etc
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #41 on: Jul 6, 2006, 02:01PM »
Alright. We get the message. FWD can sort of drift. But the thing is they will never compete with the likes of RWD in the real world of drift i.e. D1 or drift Australia, where drifting is done competitively, legally, on the track. So how about people stop abusing the sport, unless you want me to get started on another form of racing such as F1. I doubt FWD will ever have a place in drift competions, so cut your losses and shut up.

How about some of the followers or fans speak up and discuss the standing of the sport in Australia, like how it is the fastest growing motorsport in Australia at the moment or the fact that it is one of the most affordable levels of motorsport you could try your hand at? I for one, as soon as i get my sh!t together and sort out my cars, will be purchasing and/or building my own drift warrior by the end of the year (and i am apparently a uni bum!!).

So people stop dwelling on this FWD cars can or can't drift. Its quite irrelevant to the sport - id firstly like to see a FWD at mallala or the like and secondly see it be competitive with the other cars (which would all be RWD).

BB

hehe, an ill be there with you wont i now dion ;)

BB has this all sorted and i cant wait to be a part of it ;)

Offline Budgie

  • Dr. B Udgie - AWD FTW
  • Administrator
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 9411
  • Karma: +131/-33
  • Gender: Male
  • U12-U13
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #42 on: Jul 6, 2006, 02:40PM »
unless you want me to get started on another form of racing such as F1. I doubt FWD will ever have a place in drift competions, so cut your losses and shut up.

Another form of racing?

Drifting is not racing... not even close.

I don't even consider it to be true motorsport.  Its more of a 'motor-show-sport'.
dont piss me off with your pillarless shit captain snappy wrist

Offline HIRO

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: +23/-43
  • Gender: Male
  • V6 3000
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #43 on: Jul 6, 2006, 03:22PM »
FWD is more intuitive to control when it breaks traction. If your foot is down and it starts understeering, your natural instinct is to back off the throttle, which removes power from the front wheels and transfers more weight of the car to the front wheels, causing them to regain traction. If you're coming into a corner too fast and it starts understeering (as most FWD cars naturally understeer) your instinct is to hit the brakes, which lowers the road speed and the sideways force on the tyres, requiring less traction from them and cancelling the slide.

However in a RWD, if you put too much power down through a corner the car will start oversteering, instinct is to back off and hit the brakes, this causes the front wheels to slow down even more and more often than not the car will spin out. If the back end of a RWD car slides out you MUST keep the power down to control the slide. This goes against a driver's natural instinct so it can end up in some hairy and/or dangerous situations.

RWD and FWD cars require completely different driving styles to control when they're in a slide.

In short: for the average driver, FWD is safer than RWD.

This is exactly right, probably one of the best explanations ever posted here. +Karma to you Jono.

FWD and 4WD (as in east-west style) have better control full stop, especialy in wet weather and traveling through the hills. Take it from some one who own's both an RWD (R31) & a FWD (U12), yes, RWD's are better in D1-show comps and straight line;   But Drifting cannot be limited to Show Only, you need to consider Hill-Climbs/mountain drifting etc wich is not very big here in Australia - these kind of events wich I would never bring my R31 to, because even in the mildest wet conditions my car wants to slide out - for D1 Show Drifting...Hell Yeah I would use my R31 over my u12 because I would get more points for smoking the tyres and snaking etc which is not easy on the track (unless it's dirst or gravel). But its all still personal preferance and because RWD's drift easier is why the majority of people use them even in the hills in Japan, regardless of the danger. Many young Japanese teens die all the time during these events. e.g - Drifting in hill event's I would always use my u12 or if I had a better choice I would use a HNU12 with the Attesa driveline becuase I would have that extra advantage in an un-safe weather condition in which I have had many close calls in my old Z31 and the current R31 no matter how many awsome drifts I did, sooner or later and accident most likely to happen. In my U12 I have always kept safe, and I value my life and I am not stuped enough to take the risk off drifting a rwd in such unsafe, wet and bendy narrow roads.

Its important to realise that people have a certain style, so some drivlines suit individuals more than others because of there style, but technicley east west mounted cars are safer...e.g - my step brother who is a racer in both D1 and proper Track Racing prefers an RWD through the hills (RX7 series-1 or his 280-Z.) But the only reason he prefers them is because he has minimal experiace with a FWD and thats the only reason.  But ME on the other hand, I drive both cars equaly so I know the good points and not so good points of both worlds, because thats what they are - two different worlds and not to forget 4wd's and also rear mounted engines like Mr2's and Ferrari's etc wich would make it four different worlds of drifitng.

if you had read what I said earlier... Japans Drift King who Judges D1 helps out with the anime, and if he thought it was wrong he would have put his foot down and said so, but he didnt did he? probably becuase he had nothing against FWD's doing a style of drifting... and thats why it made it into the cartoon the way it did didnt it?


That's exactly right, +Karma to you.

its all about the definition of "drift".

this the way i see drifting....do you see any FWD cars in D1? no....and there never will be, because they cant drift, they can "slide" but in no way, shape or form could they ever perfom feats see within the D1 comp.

i dont see how a cartoon can make people think that a certain car can "drift".

Watch those video's that noss linked up. Thats one very basic example on how front wheel drives drift.  We are not all talking about Show Drifting, were talking about making the drift and we should be getting into more detail about when and where to use your choice in driveline, and how you think that car will handle while drifting in certain conditions etc. 'ADAPTABILITY' being the master word, cmon guys, don't be so limited.
« Last Edit: Jul 6, 2006, 04:11PM by HIRO »
"Druggies and Speed Junkies both O.D, but the difference between the two is that a Druggie overdoses, while the Speed Junkie over drives"

Offline bogan_bob

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +16/-6
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #44 on: Jul 6, 2006, 08:21PM »
I'm sorry i thought this board was for discussion of motorsport not people to whinge about what kind of drive is 'safer' to drive and the physics of breaking traction (although that COULD be related to the sport of drifting, the RWD bit).  ;D

http://ozvr4.com - check it out :)

Offline HIRO

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: +23/-43
  • Gender: Male
  • V6 3000
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #45 on: Jul 6, 2006, 08:33PM »
I'm sorry i thought this board was for discussion of motorsport not people to whinge about what kind of drive is 'safer' to drive and the physics of breaking traction

This thread is about technicality and physics of breaking/traction etc when drifting with different drives. How is this not motorspot? If 'you' wana talk about normal D1 motorspot stuff then suit yourself. But this thread is not limited to that in anyway. Its about drifting, which doesnt just mean Pro-D1 show stuff, in fact its hardly that. Its about dirfting in general.


(although that COULD be related to the sport of drifting, the RWD bit).  ;D

 

 ::) I still don't know how some of you just don't get it.

« Last Edit: Jul 6, 2006, 08:41PM by HIRO »
"Druggies and Speed Junkies both O.D, but the difference between the two is that a Druggie overdoses, while the Speed Junkie over drives"

Offline Sticky

  • Bad Luck Magnet
  • qld local moderator
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3867
  • Karma: +111/-14
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #46 on: Jul 6, 2006, 11:02PM »

Watch those video's that noss linked up. Thats one very basic example on how front wheel drives drift.  We are not all talking about Show Drifting, were talking about making the drift and we should be getting into more detail about when and where to use your choice in driveline, and how you think that car will handle while drifting in certain conditions etc. 'ADAPTABILITY' being the master word, cmon guys, don't be so limited.

they arent drifting...mearly using crappy cheese cutter tyres under load to loose grip around a corner with the handbrake applied at all times,  i could get a car trailer to drift if that is the case!

Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline bogan_bob

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +16/-6
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #47 on: Jul 6, 2006, 11:10PM »
Trailer drift...... i think that could catch on.....  ;)

http://ozvr4.com - check it out :)

Offline VladIvanovic

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Karma: +14/-12
  • Gender: Male
    • My Company/Personal Website
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #48 on: Jul 7, 2006, 01:53AM »
loose grip around a corner with the handbrake applied at all times

lol you ever tried that in a FWD? ...you spin out.
you only need to give the handbrake a sharp jap like they do in a pro-d1 to get it to lose traction.

and I think the point HIRO is trying to get at here, is that JUST LIKE RALLY CARS IN THE FWD CLASSES, you use braking techniques and so forth so that you can Slide/Drift to get around corners and so forth.

Hes not bullshitting about D1 and crap, he's talking about general handling of a car in a situation. Could you imagine a 2L Turbo FWD Rally car not using the handbrake and feint and braking techniques to go around a corner? you'd get understeer all the time and crash into the crowd or he'd lose major time in building speed back up again, and then he'd be like I'M AN ASSHAT WHY DIDNT FLICK IT AROUND THE CORNER? Because some other asshats told me im not allowed to do that because its fake drifting and im a tryhard if I do so.

Offline noss

  • Administrator
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 13882
  • Karma: +278/-50
  • Gender: Male
  • great scott!
    • antrx
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #49 on: Jul 7, 2006, 05:03PM »
haha nice call vlad.

http://polyfedelicio.us/imgs/ - free image hosting for whatever you like

Offline HIRO

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: +23/-43
  • Gender: Male
  • V6 3000
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #50 on: Jul 7, 2006, 10:39PM »
they arent drifting...mearly using crappy cheese cutter tyres under load to loose grip around a corner with the handbrake applied at all times,  i could get a car trailer to drift if that is the case!

Thats a load of shit actualy, very un-true.  You don't even need to use the handbreak all the time, there is many other ways. The handbreak is only aplied when it is truly needed, usualy just a quick and sometimes slight  pull, not a using it like driving a train.


and I think the point HIRO is trying to get at here, is that JUST LIKE RALLY CARS IN THE FWD CLASSES, you use braking techniques and so forth so that you can Slide/Drift to get around corners and so forth.


Exactly!


« Last Edit: Jul 7, 2006, 10:41PM by HIRO »
"Druggies and Speed Junkies both O.D, but the difference between the two is that a Druggie overdoses, while the Speed Junkie over drives"

Offline [JET-20T]

  • anwrx member no.1
  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
  • Karma: +11/-9
  • Gender: Male
  • boxer
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #51 on: Jul 10, 2006, 01:03AM »
is drift not a form of slide...

so if a car is sliding around the corners apex, be it power oversteer/4 wheel drift/handbrake turns arent they all drifting in the first place?


Back on topic of drifting. Isnt the most effective way to drift not be creating those smoke shows. Cos if u were just at the point before the ttyres lose grip you would be able to get around the corner faster cos there would be more traction.

Or are these drift comps meant to be about showing off and not timed laps?

traction kicked in yo!

Offline Jono

  • The Wise Man
  • Global Moderator
  • post whore
  • ****
  • Posts: 5748
  • Karma: +159/-40
  • Gender: Male
  • memory boy!
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #52 on: Jul 10, 2006, 07:47PM »
Any drifting is about show. Except when it's used in rallying.
#1 Post Wh0re
pringles was here!

Offline DeathPlaza

  • antrx.com senior member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Stupid American
    • Ralphsquad
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #53 on: Jul 11, 2006, 08:33AM »
have any of you seen drift bible?  not all drifts are for show, in the end of drift bible Keichi Tsuchiya performs his all out "drift attack" performing high speed drifts with "braking reduced to the absolute minimum" and "minimal countersteering."  This like the video says is the "ultimate form of drifting" because it mixes the high speed tarmac racing with drifting.  with that said, I believe that in some circumstances (certain corners) drifting can actually cut time.  knowing whether to grip or to slide is the hard part. 

another thought i just had, as of now all forms of motorsport that i can think of involve lap times, or some kind of timing.  whereas in drifting contestants are judged for style.  so unless someone can think of another form of motorsport that doesn't involve time, or someone can refresh me on the rules of drifting events, it seems to me that drifting really is a sport of its own.  then again motorsport doesn't really mean anything more than that,"motor" (cars,motorcycles, etc.) "sports" (games/contests).

I think the problem here is that the terms we are using aren't even defined.  what is a drift exactly?  what is a motorsport exactly?  without knowing this no one can answer whether drifting is a motorsport.  or whether fwd and awd cars can drift. 

and don't just anyone come in with a definition of a drift because honestly i don't even know who would be in a position to officially define it.
I have a sunroof!

Offline bogan_bob

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +16/-6
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #54 on: Jul 11, 2006, 10:05PM »
although i now realise this thread is not necisarily about drifting the motorsport, ill attempt to answer the above post to 'educate' people.

motorsport is defined as, according to myself, any sporting activty that uses a motor driven vehicle, be it bike, car, aeroplane etc.

As for other sports that don't involve time, how about demolition derbys or monster trucks?? Its kind of like what diving is to aquatic sports.

Drifting, as defined by CAMS, is '.....an activity designed to to be undertaken through a series of corners wherein the object of the exercise is to produce as much yaw rate as possible from the vehicle whilst demonstrating the driver's ability to control the direction and speed of the vehicle through a pre determined course'.

thats it for now BB


http://ozvr4.com - check it out :)

Offline Jono

  • The Wise Man
  • Global Moderator
  • post whore
  • ****
  • Posts: 5748
  • Karma: +159/-40
  • Gender: Male
  • memory boy!
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #55 on: Jul 12, 2006, 01:24AM »
Its kind of like what diving is to aquatic sports.

Nice analogy :)
#1 Post Wh0re
pringles was here!

Offline bigpud2012

  • "I drive a pissweak auto"
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
  • Karma: +17/-21
  • Gender: Male
    • RSI - Adelade Sports Imagery - Clipsal 500 Classic Adelaide etc
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #56 on: Jul 14, 2006, 09:36PM »
mmmm FWD burnout :D


Offline Sticky

  • Bad Luck Magnet
  • qld local moderator
  • post whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3867
  • Karma: +111/-14
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #57 on: Jul 15, 2006, 04:28PM »
cough..clutchsmoke..cough


hahah jokes

Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline peeto

  • antrx.com junior member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • R31 Pintara
    • peeto.net
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #58 on: Jul 24, 2006, 03:47PM »
Uh.... I have no idea where you learned physics from... but I suggest you re-read the textbook... as well as maybe some kinematics lectures...

Now I have no interest whatsoever in drifting... i strongly regard Rallying to be a true test of skill... then F1. But when someone brings up mal-digested information... it sparks my attention (maybe it brings out the Flame warrior in me  :P)

The distance between the wheels (aka wheelbase) will only determine the turning radius. Small cars, small wheelbase, small turning radius. Trucks, big wheel base, massive turning radius.

Where the driving force comes from, doesn't affect how easily controlled the car becomes in regular driving. The weight distribution and position of the motor affect the control.

A front wheel drive car has the engine at the front, causing a disbalance. Exaggerated, it basically means all the control is in the front wheels, and the rear wheels are basically just floating. Hard turns will make the back end whip out easily, if traction is held. When traction is lost, the mass of the engine will make the car continue a straight line (Understeer).

Rear wheel drive has a better distribution for weight, almost 50/50. When traction is lost in the rear wheels, the rear of the car will whip out (oversteer) but the front wheels can still be used to reposition the front of the car. This provides much easier control of the rear of the car, hence, the vehicle in general.

The best example to see it all done to extremes is rallying. Watch when an AWD vehicle reaches a hairpin. Using left foot braking (or line-lock), they lock the front wheels, then apply full throttle to whip out the rear. This is an extreme example of full traction in the front (Locked) and full loss at the back. Full control the entire time. The only way to do that in front wheel drive would be to maintain traction at all times.

Simple.

okay genius, first thing u haven't realized i am talking about cars that have 4 wheels, obvious to most but you seem to have missed it. i wasn't talking about the wheelbase distance, it obviously hasn't occurred to you that you could measure the distance between the front and back wheels. i was simply stating that the distance between power and steering in a FWD is exactly 0 (zero) whereas in RWD it is roughly equal to the distance between the front and back wheels (and i say roughly because we are talking drifting here... the car could be moving diagonally with major CV/diff slip).

read jono's post... he goes on to explain the consequences of this.

also, were not talking about regular driving, were talking about drifting. and only a moron would suggest that "Rear wheel drive has a better distribution for weight".

learn the basic principals of observation, learn to read English, then u might be ready to learn and discuss physics. sorry, i just hate being treated like an idiot by morons that are too stupid to understand what I'm saying. also i fixed your spelling mistakes in the quoted text.


Offline bogan_bob

  • antrx.com junkie
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Karma: +16/-6
  • Gender: Male
Re: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD?
« Reply #59 on: Jul 24, 2006, 04:08PM »
^^^ Says he with an underpowered rear wheel drive car :D lol

http://ozvr4.com - check it out :)