Author Topic: ITB'd KA24E  (Read 35411 times)

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Offline SSS

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ITB'd KA24E
« on: Dec 9, 2004, 07:48PM »
Posting this for those that are interested on the progress i will be making on my ITB's for my KA24E, it's hopefully beginning  all on saturday with the purchasing of the actual ITB's.
If you don't know what ITB's are, don't post in here ;D seriously, feel free to ask questions as i don't expect many people to undertake such an extreme intake system mod.

I will post pics and tell everyone what the ITB's are from when i have them in my possession (hopefully) on saturday, otherwise i'll be reverting back to my 100% custom ITB's.

I'm very optimistic on what these will do for the KA once the ecu is reprogrammed to suit, i am expecting no less than 10kW at the wheels increase in peak power, mid range torque should go through the roof which is what really matters ;) and should be done for all under $500.
The cross sectional area for flow through these throttles increases approx 45% over the stock tb, backing my theory that the intake manifold on the E is its primary let down.

And yes, i am still going to turbo as well.  ;D

Offline Rake

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #1 on: Dec 9, 2004, 07:58PM »
Well I don't know what an ITB is, but from my acute powers of estimation it's the throttle body or part thereof?

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mid range torque should go through the roof

I understood that quite clearly. And it sounds good! So, yes, carry on

Offline weasel

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #2 on: Dec 9, 2004, 08:38PM »
very nice SSS it will be great to see up and running
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Offline Pinsair

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #3 on: Dec 9, 2004, 08:41PM »
Well I don't know what an ITB is, but from my acute powers of estimation it's the throttle body or part thereof?

Individual throttle bodies? as in the same as quad tb's? that'd be my guess anyway
good work sss

Offline noss

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #4 on: Dec 9, 2004, 08:58PM »
yeh thats what he means.. as you know i'm very keen to see your progress as well adam.

with a 45% inrease in cross sectional area i'd expect top end power to increase more than 10kw. although i guess we've both learnt our lesson about being optimistic with power. i'm guessing the main factor of these itb's that you're buying is that they keep the velocity of the air quite high which is what creates so much torque?

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Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #5 on: Dec 10, 2004, 08:36AM »
ITB: Individual Throttle Body, same as quad tb's.

That's right noss, intake charge velocity is kept higher to promote more complete and faster cylinder filling; these should hopefully increase the Volumetric Efficiency (VE) of the engine, it's ability to breathe.

Just another note to mention that these are slightly smaller in diameter than what i was going to originally use, however driveability should be much better with these ones.

Offline Jtas

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #6 on: Dec 10, 2004, 09:57AM »
awesome stuff, can't wait to find out about the results :D

Offline FLOGTARA

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #7 on: Dec 10, 2004, 07:50PM »
Coolies man.  Quad's sounds like a wicked move. What ya gunna do about a plenum chamber r are you just gunna run straight filters??

If you run filters you'll be runnin some hot engine air!

What size diameter are the thraots??

The induction note should sound fuckin awesome!!!

Pics plzz  8)
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Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #8 on: Dec 11, 2004, 10:50AM »
Picked them up this morning, they are from a `02 Suzuki GSXR 1000. I've already begun removing the secondary butterflies, only have to remove the shaft.
They're 42mm at the throat of the throttles, the inlet starts at 50mm and tapers down to 42mm.

A complete custom plenum is being fab'd up soon, i can't run these open even if i wanted to because the KA ecu does not utilize a MAP sensor. The plenum needs to withstand around 20+psi of boost too.  ;D


Oh, just as a side note, any melbournians looking for these, good luck, the only other wrecker i found in melbourne carrying them wanted $1k and would not separate the TPS/Injectors etc. I paid $200 for the itb's minus the electronics, if i wanted them he said they'd only cost me another hundred.

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Offline Budgie

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #9 on: Dec 11, 2004, 03:08PM »
Crazy! This is gonna be one serious KA adam! :D
dont piss me off with your pillarless shit captain snappy wrist

Offline Rake

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #10 on: Dec 11, 2004, 11:42PM »
Excuse my idiotism, but whats the diffrence of these over the stocker?

Would I be correct in assuming:

- Bigger, better designed plumbing for improved airflow (especially when used in forced induction setups)
- Are those 4 butteryfly valves? Does the stock TB only have one before all of the plumbing that goes to the cylinders?

Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #11 on: Dec 12, 2004, 09:41AM »
Excuse my idiotism, but whats the diffrence of these over the stocker?

Would I be correct in assuming:

- Bigger, better designed plumbing for improved airflow (especially when used in forced induction setups)
- Are those 4 butteryfly valves? Does the stock TB only have one before all of the plumbing that goes to the cylinders?

No idiotism here Rake, you're right about what you thought.
The stock tb is approx 62mm in diameter, each individual throttle plate in my ITB's is 42mm.
Potential airflow cross sectional area of the stock tb: .003m^2
Potential airflow cross sectional area of the ITB's: .0055m^2
So that's an increase in cross sectional area of approx 45%.
It's not necessarily considered "bigger" intake plumbing, just better; some people don't bother with ITB's in FI setups as they see no point, however i only see positives. ITB's are the only way to go for a hardcore NA engine fullstop.

Offline Colby

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #12 on: Dec 12, 2004, 10:31AM »
This is a super cool concept.  I'll be keen to see the outcome!
I would think that to have this effective you would need to upgrade the AFM to the Z32 ones. cos that seems to be the other major letdown on the KA

How bout the KA24de? possabilities of fitting ITB's to it?

Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #13 on: Dec 12, 2004, 11:13AM »
I would think that to have this effective you would need to upgrade the AFM to the Z32 ones. cos that seems to be the other major letdown on the KA
I have one in the garage waiting to go in ;D

Quote
How bout the KA24de? possabilities of fitting ITB's to it?
Of course it's possible. ANYTHING is possible. Just depends on how much fabrication you want to do. I am keeping my eyes open for a DE head too. :)

Offline Milford

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #14 on: Dec 12, 2004, 02:16PM »
i saw a SSS pulsar, with an SR20 run mid-high 13's at the track, NA, with a quad TB setup
definitely a good investment
and lets not forget the Quad TB GTI-R engine, a lovely piece of work

Offline Rake

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #15 on: Dec 12, 2004, 02:43PM »
No idiotism here Rake, you're right about what you thought.
The stock tb is approx 62mm in diameter, each individual throttle plate in my ITB's is 42mm.
Potential airflow cross sectional area of the stock tb: .003m^2
Potential airflow cross sectional area of the ITB's: .0055m^2
So that's an increase in cross sectional area of approx 45%.
It's not necessarily considered "bigger" intake plumbing, just better; some people don't bother with ITB's in FI setups as they see no point, however i only see positives. ITB's are the only way to go for a hardcore NA engine fullstop.

Awesome :) I don't know much mechanics, but I'm just putting simple theory and common sense together.

Offline FLOGTARA

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #16 on: Dec 13, 2004, 08:23PM »
They look good man.  Your also going to have to weld some interesting pipe's up to the throttle bodies as i am assuming there is no chance in hell they will line up with the stock inlet ports..... ::)

Fuckin good score tho  8) ;D
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Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #17 on: Dec 14, 2004, 08:33AM »
I've already begun cutting up my stock manifold to suit. May have pics tonite.

Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #18 on: Dec 14, 2004, 01:11PM »
One observation is that the stock manifold looks to have very turbulent flow due to a number of factors, the main one being the swirl valves, which have been long removed.

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #19 on: Dec 15, 2004, 07:38AM »
One observation is that the stock manifold looks to have very turbulent flow due to a number of factors, the main one being the swirl valves, which have been long removed.

I was under the impression that swirl valves were a good thing as they kept the atomised fuel in suspension due to higher velocity....
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Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #20 on: Dec 15, 2004, 08:37AM »
No, they're only there to help intake velocity at low engine speed and at certain loads. I removed them because these ITB's *should* have significantly higher intake velocity and less turbulent laminar flow to offset the effect of removing them.

Testing with desktop dyno 2000 revealed that low to mid range torque jumps by quite a bit, from memory i believe it was something like 13.5 Nm over stock. But that is only an approximation and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #21 on: Dec 16, 2004, 05:37PM »
Still mucking around with the adapter plates and how everything will be secured/sealed, unfortunately they won't be in before mid jan as my laser cutting place is very busy.

Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #22 on: Jan 29, 2005, 09:23AM »
Nothing new to report as of yet, although i have my set of 460cc secondary injectors i can start working on for a fuel rail.

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #23 on: Feb 2, 2005, 10:12AM »
SSS- im looking into getting this done for my car aswell (i dont have to do the fucking around cause of the aftermarket availablity for sr20 parts) but how does having the secondary injectors work? I understadn the principle as for me if im running low boost or off boost it uses the stock ones, and if im using high boost it would use the bigger ones... how doe u fit it all in? another bracket or? and the electrics?

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Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #24 on: Feb 2, 2005, 02:24PM »
when on boost, all the injectors are activated, off boost only the stock ones are running.

Injector bungs are welded into the intake manifold further up from the stock points, mine will mount in the gsxr mounting holes. As far as electronics, my piggyback ecu will be mapped for this.
If you're going for a wolf or something like that, you'll have similar options to control such a setup.

Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #25 on: Mar 28, 2005, 03:20PM »
This project is at a stand still atm, mainly because i'm re-thinking the design of the runners and the plenum, plus trying to get the strut braces and CAI's done.

Offline bungs

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #26 on: Sep 20, 2005, 04:10AM »
This project is at a stand still atm, mainly because i'm re-thinking the design of the runners and the plenum, plus trying to get the strut braces and CAI's done.

Anything new to report back? Screw the cai's and braces, focus on this hehe.

Offline chr1S

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #27 on: Sep 20, 2005, 08:44AM »
Jesus, SSS...Your beating me !!!  >:(

 :P Hope it all works out bud, you seem like one fkn smart kid, did you do any kind of mechanical engineering at uni/tafe ?

All these post's ive seen have always been mechanical minded and it sounds like you know what the hell your on about, nice mate !
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Offline SSS

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #28 on: Sep 20, 2005, 11:57AM »
Jesus, SSS...Your beating me !!! >:(

 :P Hope it all works out bud, you seem like one fkn smart kid, did you do any kind of mechanical engineering at uni/tafe ?

All these post's ive seen have always been mechanical minded and it sounds like you know what the hell your on about, nice mate !

Thanks kyrios, i'm actually currently in the last semester of my mechanical engineering degree. I hope it works out too!

Bungs, unfortunately cos it is my last semester, and last semester was just as bad as this one, i haven't been able to do anything on them but get the material i need to cut the flanges out that will be welded to the severely cut down stock manifold. I have absolutely everything i need to do them, except a TIG to weld aluminium but i've got someone lined up to do that for me.
Basically i couldn't give 2 shits about those CAI's and STB's i was going to do, between these ITB's, the GT3040 and the TiAL 44mm wastegate both waiting for an exhaust manifold, i've got plenty on my hands.
In 6 weeks it'll be a different story timewise ;D

Offline Pingu

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Re: ITB'd KA24E
« Reply #29 on: Sep 23, 2005, 01:10AM »
Have you decided your runner length between the Tb's and the intake ports on the head? This would be something you would tune for your scenario i would think.

Stock tb ID is 60.0mm at the throttle plate, which is solid for a turbo setup, but your quad tb's have a collectivley huge area !
This is what i want to do too. Might be a bit rugged resorting the idle air sources since they will be behind the throttle etc...?

If i had an SR20 id spend a mere 200 on GTIR plenum and Tb's (no elecs) and put everything on it to suit from original bits. I dont know if the sr20det head from the GTIR is the same as all the others, maybe it all only bolts up on that particular pulsar gtir sr20 head.