Author Topic: Urgent help.  (Read 29452 times)

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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #90 on: Mar 3, 2013, 03:08PM »
Changed the settings and all good now, cept I'm getting no spark from the coil to the dizzy.

I have the ignition output (pin 36 MS) direct connected to the power transistor (pin 1 oem ecu) but than going here http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/how_to_megasquirt_your_nissan_240sx.htm it states that MS2 pin 36 has to go directly to the ignition coil which is pin 36 on the oem ecu.

But SSS stated that if the power transistor isn't hooked up to the MS2 than I can't use the timing maps, however there isn't an input for the power transistor ? So if I did directly hook up the ignition coil and left the power transistor to the stock ecu, can I use the MS2 maps or not ?
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #91 on: Mar 3, 2013, 03:37PM »


This states that the IGN output on the MS2 HAS to go to the negative side of the coil. Pin number 3 on the factory ecu goes through the resistor & condensor than to the coil AND power transistor. Whilst the power from the ignition switch runs to the positive side of the coil and back to pin 36 on the factory ecu.
So now i must hook the power transistor back to the factory ecu (pin 1) and direct connect pin 3 in its place (MS2 IGN Output pin 36)
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #92 on: Mar 3, 2013, 04:12PM »
re wired it to the same as my last post, factory ecu pin 3 (negative side of coil) to MS2 PIN 36 as per the diagram, but still getting no spark.
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #93 on: Mar 3, 2013, 06:08PM »
Pin 36 on the MS2 is a coil driver, so you will not need the Power Transistor (which is just a shit OEM name for coil driver).

You should be able to disconnect the Power Transistor completely IF the MS2 is wired via Pin 36 directly to the coil, as per the diagram above.


Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #94 on: Mar 3, 2013, 06:11PM »
Quote
Using the MS-II PCBv3 ECU

Build the ECU up to trigger from the Hall/Optical Input (all of our MS230-C units are by default configured this way).
The only change is to enable the IGBT High Current Ignition Coil Driver Circuit to directly drive the coil.
Remove the jumper from JS10 to IGN (if exists)
Jumper IGBTIN to JS10
Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN
(This will enable the BIP373 Ignition Coil Driver)

That's it!

Yours is a v3 MS2 correct? Have you done this if so?

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #95 on: Mar 3, 2013, 06:14PM »
Pin 36 on the MS2 is a coil driver, so you will not need the Power Transistor (which is just a shit OEM name for coil driver).

You should be able to disconnect the Power Transistor completely IF the MS2 is wired via Pin 36 directly to the coil, as per the diagram above.



I have it direct connected to the negative side of the coil the same as the diagram.

As for the other part, no I havnt done so because I do not understand the Jumper shit.
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #96 on: Mar 3, 2013, 06:55PM »
There should be pins on the actual circuit board called "IGBTIN", "JS10", "IGBTOUT" and "IGN"

They need to be connected on the circuit board as described above to enable the on board coil driver. I can't find a pic to show it, can you weigh in here Crazy? You know more about this than i do!

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #97 on: Mar 3, 2013, 07:12PM »
You would think they would do this shit before selling the actual product wouldn't you...
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #98 on: Mar 3, 2013, 07:21PM »
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/Ignition.htm

IT WANTS ME TO SOLDER ON A CIRCUIT BOARD ??!!!??

geeeeet fuccccccked.
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #99 on: Mar 3, 2013, 08:02PM »
Take the pcb out of the case first and check, it may have already been done.

They do it this way to give flexibility for different setups, not everyone retains single coil / distributor....I won't be, I'll be going to Coil On Plug which will only use the CAS sensor part of the distributor.

Offline crazy2287

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #100 on: Mar 3, 2013, 08:30PM »
Dude, your going to have to take a few steps back and configure the MS to work on your engine properly.

Stop trying to take shortcuts, MS is not a plug in and go. Read the manuals and texts available to you. It might take you a couple of days but you will be better off in the long run. You will understand what you are doing and probably have it done by now.

Less haste more speed.

I drive like i screw..... illegally =D... wait O.o WHAT?? O.O

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #101 on: Mar 3, 2013, 09:22PM »
Dude, your going to have to take a few steps back and configure the MS to work on your engine properly.

Stop trying to take shortcuts, MS is not a plug in and go. Read the manuals and texts available to you. It might take you a couple of days but you will be better off in the long run. You will understand what you are doing and probably have it done by now.

Less haste more speed.



Can't configure it to run on the engine if I havnt done the jumpers to run the single coil ?

But if this can be left alone but I have to run a different ignition setup, why is available ? SSS you mentioned the coil on plug setup, what's involved with that ? I'll put up a pic of the PCB.

EDIT:

thats the PCB in my version of the MS2 with the MSextra attachment.

I havnt short cutted anything, ive been doing this to the best of my knowlege and obviously could not have been done without help. Researching is a little bit hard when you only have access with your mobile phone because you miss alot of things when zooming in and out.

But yes, these jumpers have to be solderd ? or are there solderless jumpers available on the market that are just plug and play ?

That or what are the other options for igniton ?
« Last Edit: Mar 3, 2013, 09:31PM by Pure_Sincerity »
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #102 on: Mar 3, 2013, 10:12PM »
This is some good info, perhaps the way to go ?
Quote
Wiring the Coil to the High Current Driver

To use the high current driver (with the VB921 dedicated coil driver IC), you must install the high current ignition driver circuit at step#65 of the assembly of your V3 main board.

Make sure you did not install R57. If you have installed it, remove it (or cut one lead to disable it). R57 is located about 1 inch (25mm) from the DB37, and 1 inch (25mm) from the heat sink. R57 interferes with the signal from the processor to the VB921, so it must be removed, or else your dwell and timing will be wrong.

If you have connected the high current driver, you installed jumpers:

IGBTIN (near the heat sink side of the DB37 on the bottom of the board) to JS10 (under the 40-pin CPU socket on the bottom of the PCB)
IGBTOUT to IGN - near the Heat sink end of the DB37 on the bottom of the PCB (this brings the ignition control signal out on DB37 pin #36)
Wiring the high current circuit to the coil is very easy. You need to supply a switched 12 Volt supply to one side of the coil, to the positive (+) terminal. Use the fuel pump relay for this source, as the coil will then not be powered during a stall, etc. Put a 10 Amp fuse in this wire. The other terminal (negative (-)) is wired to pin 36 of the MegaSquirt® DB37 (this connects to the relay board terminal S5, if you are using the relay board).

Quote
You need to set the parameters in MegaTune. Set:

Coil Charging Scheme to 'standard coil charge',
Spark Output to 'going high (inverted)' up to 2.886 code / 'High-to-Low' for 3.1+ code.
Finally, you need to set the dwell parameters to match your coil. Generally, you want to set this as low as possible, while still not creating any misfires. Typical dwell settings are 2.5 to 3.5 milliseconds. Generally people should start with about 3.0 to 3.1 milliseconds, and adjust from there. Lower it if there are no misfires, raise it until they are gone.
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #103 on: Mar 4, 2013, 07:19AM »
Can't configure it to run on the engine if I havnt done the jumpers to run the single coil ?

But if this can be left alone but I have to run a different ignition setup, why is available ? SSS you mentioned the coil on plug setup, what's involved with that ? I'll put up a pic of the PCB.

EDIT:

thats the PCB in my version of the MS2 with the MSextra attachment.

I havnt short cutted anything, ive been doing this to the best of my knowlege and obviously could not have been done without help. Researching is a little bit hard when you only have access with your mobile phone because you miss alot of things when zooming in and out.

But yes, these jumpers have to be solderd ? or are there solderless jumpers available on the market that are just plug and play ?

That or what are the other options for igniton ?

Can't see anything in that pic.

No offense, but Coil On Plug is WAY out of your league at the moment.
It will give you precisely zero gains or advantages, but four times the problems.

Stick with the single coil, get it working, then you can upgrade to a wasted spark setup later IF you really need to.

Quote
IGBTIN (near the heat sink side of the DB37 on the bottom of the board) to JS10 (under the 40-pin CPU socket on the bottom of the PCB)
IGBTOUT to IGN - near the Heat sink end of the DB37 on the bottom of the PCB (this brings the ignition control signal out on DB37 pin #36)
Wiring the high current circuit to the coil is very easy. You need to supply a switched 12 Volt supply to one side of the coil, to the positive (+) terminal. Use the fuel pump relay for this source, as the coil will then not be powered during a stall, etc. Put a 10 Amp fuse in this wire. The other terminal (negative (-)) is wired to pin 36 of the MegaSquirt® DB37 (this connects to the relay board terminal S5, if you are using the relay board).

I did find that too, it should help.

Ignore the rest which referes to the VB921 coil driver, as yours probably has the updated BIP373 Bosch coil driver.

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #104 on: Mar 4, 2013, 09:34AM »
Can't see anything in that pic.

No offense, but Coil On Plug is WAY out of your league at the moment.
It will give you precisely zero gains or advantages, but four times the problems.

Stick with the single coil, get it working, then you can upgrade to a wasted spark setup later IF you really need to.

No offence taken man, all this computer shit is out of my league, but I'm learning, getting pissed off but I'm getting there.

But is it possible to do the jumpers and get it to run without wiring the high current circuit to the coil ? It will be easy enough but I'm just wandering ?
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #105 on: Mar 4, 2013, 11:53AM »
But is it possible to do the jumpers and get it to run without wiring the high current circuit to the coil ? It will be easy enough but I'm just wandering ?

Do you want the MS2 driving the coil directly, or do you want to keep the Power Transistor driving the coil?

If you want the MS2 driving the coil directly, open the case and jumper the connections as described to get Pin 36 to drive the coil.

If you don't want to do any of that, you need to open the case anyway and confirm that Pin 36 is configured to drive an external coil driver....i.e. the Power Transistor.

I am guessing that your MS2 is configured to drive an external coil driver; DO NOT ASSUME THIS!!!!!!!! You need to check yourself.

Be very careful and heed the warnings regarding incorrect settings when using the Power Transistor to drive the coil; if you get them wrong you can fry it.
« Last Edit: Mar 4, 2013, 12:09PM by SSS »

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #106 on: Mar 4, 2013, 04:16PM »
If I can get away with not doing the jumpers than I will run the external coil driver (power transistor)

I tried checking the ecu, but I can't get the bottom half of the case off, which has the DB37 connector shown without thinking I'm going to break it.

So I emailed Cramer this:

Quote
Hey mate, are your pre built MS2 extra Ecus built to drive an external coil/power transistor from pin 36 ? Because I don't really want to install jumpers to drive the coil directly. What can I do ? ATM I have pin 36 direct connected to the negative side of my ignition coil as stated on your site in the "how to megasquirt you 240sx" section but I am getting no spark from the coil.

I'll update when he replies.
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #107 on: Mar 5, 2013, 07:35AM »
Quote
Normally, our prebuilt MS2s are set up for a 5 volt logic level spark output on pin 36, not with a high current output. They can be ordered otherwise, but you'd have to special order them that way. You could use it to drive the Nissan power transistor.

So according to that last message from Cramer, I can use pin 36 to drive the power transistor, but why wouldn't mine work ? What would the appropriate settings be to run the transistor ? And what wire from the factory ecu would I hook up ?

There are only 3 wires that go to the power transistor:
1: ignition signal input 0.3-0.6v
3: ignition reference voltage 9-12v
6: earth.

None of them come close to the 5v output the megasquirt puts out..
« Last Edit: Mar 5, 2013, 07:56AM by Pure_Sincerity »
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #108 on: Mar 5, 2013, 08:08AM »


This states that the IGN output on the MS2 HAS to go to the negative side of the coil. Pin number 3 on the factory ecu goes through the resistor & condensor than to the coil AND power transistor. Whilst the power from the ignition switch runs to the positive side of the coil and back to pin 36 on the factory ecu.
So now i must hook the power transistor back to the factory ecu (pin 1) and direct connect pin 3 in its place (MS2 IGN Output pin 36)

Quoting this from earlier on, to continue on from my previous post, after you connect factory pin 3 (negative side of coil) to MS2 pin 36 it states the ignition settings must be set to inverted.
Quote
On the 'Spark' menu choose 'Spark Settings' and set 'Spark Output Inverted' to YES.  It is critical to get the Spark Output Inverted setting correct, as setting this wrong can result in damage to the BIP373. Dwell settings will depend on the coil used.  A typical rule of thumb is to back off the dwell until you can just barely detect a misfire under lean cruising conditions, then add 0.2 ms of dwell time.

So perhaps the dwell time in my base map I downloaded was set to high preventing the car from starting ?
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #109 on: Mar 5, 2013, 12:10PM »
If you physically touch the distributor end of the lead from the coil to the strut tower and have zero spark when cranking, dwell shouldn't be your issue.

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #110 on: Mar 5, 2013, 12:16PM »
If you physically touch the distributor end of the lead from the coil to the strut tower and have zero spark when cranking, dwell shouldn't be your issue.

That's what we tried, but also, those steps I posted before are for doing the jumper setup I just realized.

But this ecu DOES cater for controlling the external coil (transistor) but I just need to work out how to hook it up. The ecu puts out only 5V from the ignition output but the transistor needs 9-12v....
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #111 on: Mar 5, 2013, 01:33PM »
So according to that last message from Cramer, I can use pin 36 to drive the power transistor, but why wouldn't mine work ? What would the appropriate settings be to run the transistor ? And what wire from the factory ecu would I hook up ?

There are only 3 wires that go to the power transistor:
1: ignition signal input 0.3-0.6v
3: ignition reference voltage 9-12v
6: earth.

None of them come close to the 5v output the megasquirt puts out..

The ignition signal input TO the Power Transistor will be 0-5V; i.e. when the signal to the Power Transistor is at 0V (or near to 0V), the Power Transistor knows not to discharge the coil.
When the Power Transistor receives a 5v input, it knows to discharge the coil.

I THINK this is how it is triggered. It could be the opposite way, i.e 0V to trigger, 5V not to trigger.

The ignition signal input is a square wave, so it can only be 0V (or near to it) or 5V (or near to it). If it is anything in between, the signal is noisy and it probably won't discharge spark from the coil.

The Ignition Reference of 9-12V and the Earth connection are only used to provide power / ground to the Power Transistor / Ignition Coil.

As for settings, I have NO idea on how to trigger the Power Transistor without frying it.

This you will need to search, plenty of people have done KA24's. Or just do the mods to drive the negative side of the coil directly from the MS2.

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #112 on: Mar 6, 2013, 09:33AM »
Emailed Cramer back and I got this in return:

Quote
Wire the ignition signal input on the power transistor to MegaSquirt pin 36. I am pretty certain the values they give are an average, not a peak voltage.

So that's back to the way I had it, factory pin 1.. But wouldn't start...
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #113 on: Mar 6, 2013, 09:50AM »
Can you give us a better photo of the boards so we can see if there is jumpers already in place that you could use.
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #114 on: Mar 6, 2013, 10:11AM »
Can you give us a better photo of the boards so we can see if there is jumpers already in place that you could use.

There would not be done mate, they only install jumpers if you request them upon purchase, which I did not.

I have a feeling I just have the settings wrong and potentially fried the coil or transistor, so I may find another, replace and try new settings. I'll post another screenshot of the ignition settings today.
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #115 on: Mar 6, 2013, 10:33AM »
If you want this fixed, PM Jono from the forums, he will be able to modify the ecu if needed or check your wiring.

His prices will be better than most auto electricians and his work will be better also.
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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #116 on: Mar 6, 2013, 10:34AM »
Also, is that picture you posted early of your ecu? The daughter board has jumpers installed.
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Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #117 on: Mar 6, 2013, 11:04AM »
But they go from the spare ports to the ms extra board, they wouldn't be the jumpers needed to modify the ignition output. Plus they aren't labeled JS10 etc
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Offline SSS

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #118 on: Mar 6, 2013, 11:07AM »
I bet you have electrical noise on the wire going to the Power Transistor.

This wire is shielded from the ecu to the power transistor, and if the shielding is comprimised or not grounded correctly, it will develop noise which means the Power Transistor will not trigger, therefore no spark will be generated by the coil.

Trust me, I know.

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: Urgent help.
« Reply #119 on: Mar 6, 2013, 11:15AM »
I bet you have electrical noise on the wire going to the Power Transistor.

This wire is shielded from the ecu to the power transistor, and if the shielding is comprimised or not grounded correctly, it will develop noise which means the Power Transistor will not trigger, therefore no spark will be generated by the coil.

I will have to check it out later on, I'll be back at the car today to do more work, I'll wire the transistor back to the megasquirt and check for the noise. Than go back over my settings, post screen shots on here for feedback on settings etc, I'll keep you guys posted,
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