Author Topic: Gas Conversion????  (Read 7574 times)

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Offline MINI_man

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Gas Conversion????
« on: Nov 5, 2008, 07:24PM »
hey guys i wanna put my pinto on gas nd wondering what u guys think on the subject........

because i havent seen many cars on here wif gas so i was wonderin if there was a reason..?

so yeah ne feedback is welcome.

Offline Kranzy

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #1 on: Nov 5, 2008, 09:52PM »
I think Bill*69 from SA is running gas, or I know one of the SA boys is.
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Offline Habibosaurus

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #2 on: Nov 5, 2008, 10:16PM »
I think Bill*69 from SA is running gas, or I know one of the SA boys is.

Yeah Bill has plenty of gas, oh and his car has LPG as well... ::)
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Offline noss

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #3 on: Nov 6, 2008, 08:26AM »
the main reason is that you lose power. its possible to make the same (or more) power out of gas, but you need to raise the compression of the motor.

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Offline BILL*69

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #4 on: Nov 6, 2008, 08:36AM »
Right you are Kranzy... and habib  :-[

There are only a few main reasons why most people wont convert...
1. Upfront cost of the conversion
2. Loss of power
3. Being a 4 cyl, they arent TOO expensive to run on petrol anyway.

My counter statements are that the rebate basically covers MOST of the conversion cost, so it doesnt matter if you have to pay it, you get it back. The loss of power, yeah it bothers you a little bit, the most noticeable lost on a converted car wtih no tuning is the acceleration. Its not as punchy as when on petrol, but as noss said, take your punt and raise the compression and you can make some good figures. And finally, yeh it isnt too costly to run on petrol, but i fill up once a week, $30 normally, $35 if i run it bone dry, and it will last at least 400km, which sadly is only what my car could do on petrol, so it ends up being over 50% cheaper for me.

It depends how you like your car, if i ever want to give it some decent stick, i just switch it over to petrol and it still has some get up and go, just the added weight of the LPG gear would affect performance when running on petrol.

Another pro, if you may call it, it lowers the back about an inch LOL.

If you do end up converting, pay attention to the warning sticker they put on your car window. Never press the accelerator on startup, it causes the biggest fucking backfire you will ever hear. And if you feel necessary, start the car on petrol every morning, because if you dont your injectors will clog up, as mine did. After 2-3 minutes switch it over to gas.

But all in all, im still ever so glad i converted.
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Offline Colby

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #5 on: Nov 6, 2008, 10:12AM »
Always wanted to make a high compression turbo on gas. 
For me it wouldnt be worth the conversion though, I only use 1 tank of petrol per month.
You have to drive a fair bit per week to make it worth it... anyone done the maths?

Offline wombat

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #6 on: Nov 6, 2008, 10:50AM »
I seem to recall a Ford concept car running straight gas

XH ute, turbo, straight gas, ~230KW when the V8 was only putting out 200 maximum. It was about 1996, 1997 - I was still at school.
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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #7 on: Nov 6, 2008, 02:33PM »
My old mechanic mate used to be a gas system fitter, he recently fitted two gas systems to his D21 and D22 Navara's, both KA24E's of different vintages.

Loss of power, yes... but not shocking and a huge saving in fuel costs.
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Offline Jono

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #8 on: Nov 6, 2008, 07:11PM »
LPG was in fashion in the muscle car scene a while back, for its higher octane rating. There were a few cars in Street Machine magazine in the early 2000s that ran straight gas on blown or turbo'd V8s.
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Offline MINI_man

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #9 on: Nov 7, 2008, 04:15PM »
yeah thnx guys i travel a fair bit nd i have a bit of a lead foot.....so i think ill get it converted, umm im thinkin of gettin my tank in the wheel well....?

Offline Kranzy

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #10 on: Nov 7, 2008, 04:47PM »
won't be able to. You need to have a spare wheel secured in your car. It would defeat the purpose of relocating your spare.
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Offline wombat

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #11 on: Nov 7, 2008, 05:38PM »
If you have a spare wheel, it needs to be secured. It is Roadworthy in Vic to not have a spare.
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Offline MINI_man

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #12 on: Nov 7, 2008, 08:08PM »
oh k then but havin in boot kinda defeats the purpose of havin fold down seats.!

Offline wombat

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #13 on: Nov 7, 2008, 08:27PM »
it does a bit... I think it's legal to have the gas tank in the wheel well. I've seen one company advertise it. You're then without a spare wheel, though.
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Offline MINI_man

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #14 on: Nov 8, 2008, 10:31AM »
yeah gas in the wheeel well is legal but a non-secured spare isnt......

Offline I'm what Willis was talkin' 'bout

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #15 on: Nov 8, 2008, 09:56PM »
I ran straight gas in one of my utes, had the fuel tank removed and then stored the spare wheel there.  It was handy on an engine of the size in my ute (5.7L V8), but I reckon on anything under a six cylinder the difference versus the outlay are neglible.

Other things to remember are that the tank must be tested every 10 years, if you're running straight gas and you run out then you can't refill it (easily or without VERY dodgy methods) and you have to get a tow, and if you're looking at a donut tank to sit in the spare wheel well they don't have a great capacity and you'll spend all your time filling it up.  Remember that due to the way LPG expands/contracts with heat, if you have say an 80 litre tank you may only ever be able to get 60 litres of LPG into it.
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Offline wombat

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #16 on: Nov 8, 2008, 10:02PM »
it's actually 64. The tank limits to 80 percent of capacity.

I agree with Val. Straight gas is quite a trouble. The Mrs' Falcon was straight gas, and running out of gas or copping a crook load of gas was a nightmare.
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Offline noss

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #17 on: Nov 10, 2008, 09:02AM »
Always wanted to make a high compression turbo on gas. 
For me it wouldnt be worth the conversion though, I only use 1 tank of petrol per month.
You have to drive a fair bit per week to make it worth it... anyone done the maths?

you wouldnt go high comp turbo, you'd leave the comp standard and run the boost higher.

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Offline Colby

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #18 on: Nov 10, 2008, 12:26PM »
you wouldnt go high comp turbo, you'd leave the comp standard and run the boost higher.

For most, I agree, but already have the increased compression... backwards to go forwards always shits me.  Figure I couldnt easily/reliably go turbo with my current arrangement, but maybe on gas.

On topic, there is a TRX in Geelong on gas, was for sale 12months ago, still same guy driving it.  Think he decided petrol was too expensive and kept the gas TRX.  So cant be all bad.

Offline Vithy

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #19 on: Nov 11, 2008, 10:59AM »
I personally think that if you cant afford to run your car on petrol, then you have bought the wrong car. Mum offered me to put my car on gas and she would pay for it all. I refused coz saving say 30 odd dolars to sacrifice power and acceleration didnt really interest me. Especially the thought of loosing a tone of boot space. Im no longer running a sub coz i like the look of an empty boot.

Besides petrol smell way better than LPG :D
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Offline snailman

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #20 on: Nov 11, 2008, 03:00PM »
agreed with what's been said by most in the topic,
as the car's already 4 cyl it doesn't burn a whole lot of fuel at the moment so the money you'd save would be minimal, add that to the fact that you loose a heap of boot space, if you get the donut tank you'll be filling up more than you'd be driving  :P

id stay with petrol, more reliable, more power and alot easier to work with :D
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Offline MINI_man

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #21 on: Nov 11, 2008, 04:21PM »
yeah cheers guys......maybe ill leave it 4 now

Offline noss

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #22 on: Nov 13, 2008, 01:53PM »
For most, I agree, but already have the increased compression... backwards to go forwards always shits me.  Figure I couldnt easily/reliably go turbo with my current arrangement, but maybe on gas.

On topic, there is a TRX in Geelong on gas, was for sale 12months ago, still same guy driving it.  Think he decided petrol was too expensive and kept the gas TRX.  So cant be all bad.

ah yes! sorry makes much more sense when you use your motor as the example lol.. i was thinking of a standard motor :P

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Offline SSS

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #23 on: Nov 13, 2008, 02:36PM »
Sounds like you are all talking about the old style mixer type LPG systems.

These days, you would have rocks in your head to go past a Vapour Injection system, starts on petrol automatically, when the engine is upto temp, switches seamlessly to gas. Minimal loss of power, and better fuel efficiency over a mixer system.

Liquid injection systems are starting to come out of the wood work, this is a system where the LPG is injected into the engine as a liquid, and due to the nature of LPG, as it is coming out of the injector in liquid form, it vaporizes instantly to a gas, with that dramatically drops the temperature of the intake charge to roughly below zero (depending on intake temp of ambient air) or less.

I don't think i need to remind anyone about the benefits of a zero degree (or less) intake charge...

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #24 on: Nov 13, 2008, 04:34PM »
so why arent you on gas? :P

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Offline SSS

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #25 on: Nov 14, 2008, 08:25AM »
Black car is going to end up alcohol/methanol (most likely E85 when it's more readily available), grey car will probably end up with vapour / liquid LPG injection if funds will stretch to it.

Offline I'm what Willis was talkin' 'bout

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #26 on: Nov 18, 2008, 08:05AM »
Sounds like you are all talking about the old style mixer type LPG systems.

These days, you would have rocks in your head to go past a Vapour Injection system, starts on petrol automatically, when the engine is upto temp, switches seamlessly to gas. Minimal loss of power, and better fuel efficiency over a mixer system.

Liquid injection systems are starting to come out of the wood work, this is a system where the LPG is injected into the engine as a liquid, and due to the nature of LPG, as it is coming out of the injector in liquid form, it vaporizes instantly to a gas, with that dramatically drops the temperature of the intake charge to roughly below zero (depending on intake temp of ambient air) or less.

I don't think i need to remind anyone about the benefits of a zero degree (or less) intake charge...

I was running gas on a carby car, so mixer gas it is pretty much.  Vapour injection is nice, but it's not exactly cheap either!

If I was running a draw through carby turbo set-up on an older car, I'd be all for a LPG setup again.  My Clevo was a 5.8, if it was on petrol I would've had to sell a kidney to fuel the thing, as it was I only got 250 km to an 80 litre tank of LPG anyway.....and yeah, I ran the thing dry once and had to get it towed to the servo and fill it up while it was still on the flatbed to make sure it started and didn't need towing anywhere else.

Got a mate with a methonal injected N13 Pulsar....holy fuck it's quick!
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Homer!  What have you done to the car?  I don't think it had broken axles before.

Before!  Before!  You're living in the past, Marge.  Quit living in the past.

What, I never said I didn't like it asshat! :P

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Offline SSS

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #27 on: Nov 18, 2008, 08:28AM »
details on N13?

Offline I'm what Willis was talkin' 'bout

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #28 on: Nov 27, 2008, 07:46AM »
details on N13?

It was back in 2000 when I used to get a ride with him to Uni in it.  Driving on the freeway at 110-110, boot it and then throw the steering wheel to full locl and it would keep tracking straight.  Got torque steer?

Bit hard to drop by his house and see if he's still got it from Ireland, but I'll keep it in my mind for when I'm home next.
TeamManSnag

Homer!  What have you done to the car?  I don't think it had broken axles before.

Before!  Before!  You're living in the past, Marge.  Quit living in the past.

What, I never said I didn't like it asshat! :P

At least I don't think I did... but if I did, then I'm the asshat.

Offline BILL*69

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #29 on: Nov 29, 2008, 07:09PM »
I personally think that if you cant afford to run your car on petrol, then you have bought the wrong car. Mum offered me to put my car on gas and she would pay for it all. I refused coz saving say 30 odd dolars to sacrifice power and acceleration didnt really interest me. Especially the thought of loosing a tone of boot space. Im no longer running a sub coz i like the look of an empty boot.

Besides petrol smell way better than LPG :D
My counter argument for this statement is pretty simple. Most people CAN afford to fork out $70 for a tank of petrol. Personally id prefer to fork out $30 for a tank of gas.

What is the use of an empty boot? With my gas tank in the boot, and my old sub, i could still fit a fair bit of crap on either side. Heck, i went on a 9 day holiday, the only thing that didnt fit in the boot was a pedestal fan  ::) And yes, i do shower and change clothes every day, before some smartass says otherwise.  :P

And in reply to whoever said "have we tested the figures against each other", i will find the thread now.
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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #30 on: Nov 29, 2008, 09:35PM »
Always wanted to make a high compression turbo on gas. 
For me it wouldnt be worth the conversion though, I only use 1 tank of petrol per month.
You have to drive a fair bit per week to make it worth it... anyone done the maths?
It was Colby hehe.

Sorry to dig here lads, but i have an interesting experiment. As some will know, and some wont, my pinny is on LPG. In this thread we have been calculating how many L/100km. I obviously cant use this effectively, as mine will be way higher. Instead, i thought we could calculate how much it costs each of us to drive that 100km, using the x amount of litres times the current price of your fuel. Mine is as follows...

Use 48 litres every tank.
Get 320km driving very un-sedately.
Therefore, 48/320 = 0.15 x  100 = 15L/100km.

I only buy my gas at 53.9c/L now or lower (price has risen so much in 10 months)...
So, 53.9c/L x 15L = .539 x 15L = 8.085

i.e $8.09 per 100km.

I do not intend to start a debate about power loss on LPG etc, as i know that i have lost power, just thought it would be interesting to compare the costs...
Other posts in reply to my question in that thread, all the petrol boys answer ranged from $12-$21/100km travelled, and the better figures were seen on highways, my figures were city driving. So cost per 100km certainly works in the favour of LPG  :o
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When i'm cruisin' wit my bitches and G's ready to pop a cap in the ass of some fool who thinks he's bank by takin' my corner of the block....  ::)

Offline MINI_man

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Re: Gas Conversion????
« Reply #31 on: Dec 1, 2008, 01:09PM »
yeah....cool....ill keep that in mind maybe worth it then......