Author Topic: Ammerty's CA18DET to KA24DET KILLA!! (Read 19221 times)

Ammerty · « **on:** Jan 30, 2007, 06:29PM »

So as the title says i am going to change my ca18DET u12 to a ka24DE (turbo is coming after the swap), YES its is a ca18 - not a ca20, its gonna be my new project.
The first thing i need to know is how many of the extra little engine bay bits will i need to convert? i know how to do the whole engine and the gearbox, but will the brake booster be easy to connect up? will the power steering just hook up easily? will the clutch booster be good enough and will it fit on easily? And what about all the little extra vacuum lines?
if someone has detailed pics of the engine bay of a KA24DE u13, it would be much appreciated.
also any advice from anyone that has done this conversion or any conversion before.

rathies · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 06:59PM »

its a CA18DE currently boy.

Ammerty · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:03PM »

yeah i know but the big end is gone so im just gonna chusk in a CA18DET coz i can get my hands on one of those much easier, and it will end up being cheaper than a rebuild. You up for helpin me with another engine swap luke?

Ammerty · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:06PM »

also having the few extra bits of the turbo kit from the CA18 may help when i go to put a turbo kit on the KA24DE.

rathies · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:30PM »

i think we need a rathies vs ammerty thread

SSS · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:31PM »

Interesting...i thought you would have just done work on the CA18?

rathies · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:36PM »

i think that would be better too..too much bullshit making an NA motor turbo. you'd be looking at an expensive block to rebuild it with all the bells and whistles.
I decided against rebuilding mine because i'd want everything i'd be looking at a $6-10k motor, in which case i would actually (believe it or not) prefer to sell my trx lol.

Ammerty · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:39PM »

Quote from: rathies on Jan 30, 2007, 07:36PM

i think that would be better too..too much bullshit making an NA motor turbo. you'd be looking at an expensive block to rebuild it with all the bells and whistles.
I decided against rebuilding mine because i'd want everything i'd be looking at a $6-10k motor, in which case i would actually (believe it or not) prefer to sell my trx lol.

yeah i would be the same way but im not rebuilding,
im talking about a complete CA18DET from some other car then i remove my f**ked CA18DE and chuck in the CA18DET engine, just for now while i save up more for the KA24DE, then i will get that rebuilt with all the "bells n whistles" + turbo kit a lil bit after that.

BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE!!
i need advise on the engine conversion from the ca to the ka, how much will i have to change?

Budgie · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:49PM »

What?

Why are you converting a CA18DE AWD RNU12 to a KA24E/T?

Just whack in a CA18DET and be done with it. What are you going to use for an AWD gearbox with a KA24E motor in the car? Not to mention the hassles with rear diff ratios (rear final drive) versus the front ends final drive ratio within AWD box.

rathies · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:54PM »

if the bell housings aren't swappable then you'd be talking adaptor plate, if its possible, and that might entail changing the crank shaft...mm it gets complicated.

Ammerty · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:55PM »

Quote from: Budgie on Jan 30, 2007, 07:49PM

What?

Why are you converting a CA18DE AWD RNU12 to a KA24E/T?

Just whack in a CA18DET and be done with it. What are you going to use for an AWD gearbox with a KA24E motor in the car? Not to mention the hassles with rear diff ratios (rear final drive) versus the front ends final drive ratio within AWD box.

i know its alot to do but i just love the ka's and putting a KA24DE into an awd bluebird is what i've always wanted to do, not to mention the HUGE power difference of power between a KA24DE and a CA18DE, imagine a KA24DET, it's gonna be fun!!

Budgie · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:56PM »

The bellhousing are NOT swapable. Because the viscous centre differential is housed within the bellhousing, making it a differant size and shape (slightly) to the FWD boxes.

Plus, and adpator plates will put everything out of whack, including the transfer case and distance with driveshafts, etc etc

rathies · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 07:59PM »

sounds like someone forgot to do thier homework hey dean?

chr1S · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 08:02PM »

i looked into this..

you can't do it, you can't even bolt up the sr20 one, the transfer case off the awd running gear will hit the starter motor.

you will not find the same rear diff ratio if you decide to opt for the awd van setup.

Ammerty · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 08:06PM »

how bouts a GRTIR box?

Quote from: rathies on Jan 30, 2007, 07:59PM

sounds like someone forgot to do thier homework hey dean?

this is my homework tool!!

JelloBello · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 08:10PM »

gtir is very similar to the u13/hnu12 AWD boxes..... different ratios i think. I'ld assume that it would have the same issues as above.

Ammerty · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 08:13PM »

imma investigate, just so you guys know, its manual,

Quote from: Budgie on Jan 30, 2007, 07:56PM

The bellhousing are NOT swapable. Because the viscous centre differential is housed within the bellhousing, making it a different size and shape (slightly) to the FWD boxes.

Plus, and adpator plates will put everything out of whack, including the transfer case and distance with driveshafts, etc etc

viscous centre differential, huh???

SSS · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 08:53PM »

Anything is possible.

Even if you have to machine off the flange on the gearbox you want to use and have a new adaptor welded on.

Budgie · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 30, 2007, 09:22PM »

Quote from: SSS on Jan 30, 2007, 08:53PM

Anything is possible.

But for a KA24ET... the time and money spent would be better spent on building a super tough CA18DET.

Quote from: Ammerty on Jan 30, 2007, 08:13PM

imma investigate, just so you guys know, its manual,

viscous centre differential, huh???

The centre differential... 4WD system in the car...

Ammerty · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 12:05AM »

Quote from: Budgie on Jan 30, 2007, 09:22PM

But for a KA24ET...

everyone keeps saying KA24ET - its gonna be a ka24Det, coz its slightly more tune-able, also twin cam = bout 15-20kw at the wheels xtra, also i know a fair bit of the sr20 parts are inter-changeable

Quote from: Budgie on Jan 30, 2007, 09:22PM

The centre differential... 4WD system in the car...

so by the viscous thigamabob not lining up you mean because of the engine the gearbox is gonna have to move to one side or the driveshaft that comes out of the clutch n connecting into the gearbos is gonna be out of line when bolted on - right? lol i sound like a noob and a half "thingamabob"

Quote from: SSS on Jan 30, 2007, 08:53PM

Anything is possible.

Even if you have to machine off the flange on the gearbox you want to use and have a new adaptor welded on.

cheers for the support n advise, everyone is saying IT CAN'T BE DONE, well i know it can be, n i'm gonna prove it!! Also i know anything is possible provided you have the money to back it up. i mean look at hiro's VG30 pintara. I'm not looking for ways that it cant be done. So please some advise on how it might be done would be great.

Budgie · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 12:14AM »

Quote from: Ammerty on Jan 31, 2007, 12:05AM

Also i know anything is possible provided you have the money to back it up. i mean look at hiro's VG30 pintara. I'm not looking for ways that it cant be done. So please some advise on how it might be done would be great.

*high fives ammerty*

Good luck too you

I don't wanna sound like a total asshat, but you probably need to learn more about how the U12 ATTESA system works before you even think about an engine swap like a KA24DET.

The complications don't really lie with the engine itself, or its wiring/managment. More so, with the gearbox/driveshafts/transfer case and even the engine mounts... which the KA24DE will not have in the correct locations (ie: front/rear torque mounts on the AWD's for example).

Think less of it as a- "don't put a KA24DET into it man, your an ass clown... CA18DET for the win"... i'm trying to say, it almost seems wastefull when the chassis/engine bay is already setup for the CA18DET. And when built properly, they are certainly no slouch.

Then, on the other hand I have been a constant supporter of people like adam/noss/bungs/chris who have all stuck by their KA's. Its a very unique option, one that would come with unique benefits (in this case, in the form of LOTS of torque

) and also lots of problems and obstacles to be overcome getting it too work!

And with that, good luck again!

Ammerty · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 12:22AM »

Quote from: Budgie on Jan 31, 2007, 12:14AM

I don't wanna sound like a total asshat, but you probably need to learn more about how the U12 ATTESA system works before you even think about an engine swap like a KA24DET.

The complications don't really lie with the engine itself, or its wiring/managment. More so, with the gearbox/driveshafts/transfer case and even the engine mounts... which the KA24DE will not have in the correct locations (ie: front/rear torque mounts on the AWD's for example).

Think less of it as a- "don't put a KA24DET into it man, your an ass clown... CA18DET for the win"... i'm trying to say, it almost seems wastefull when the chassis/engine bay is already setup for the CA18DET. And when built properly, they are certainly no slouch.

well put, i am already putting in a new CA18DET as opposed to the already in there and stuffed CA18DE,
i only really want the KA24DET coz well i'm a sukka for KA's,
also more displacement n torque,
and that i dont think anyone on this site has turbo'd one yet nor has anyone done it in a (rare in aus) RNU12 bluebird Attessa.
i have seen how bloody powerful a stock NA KA24DE can be and i am really anxious to see how it goes with a turbo (i'm trying my hardest not to sound like some ricer punk, FOOLY SIK lol)
But i will have to take everything into account before i do it, or i could be a slack bugger n just pay some guy a crazy amount of money to do it for me, wich is probably what i will end up doing.

cheers for the luck, it sound like i'm gonna need it.

chr1S · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 07:22AM »

research the crap out of it..

i saw first hand a transfer case from a sr20 running gear will not bolt up to the block, it hit the starter. so something needs to be different there...

ka24De will give you better power once you start modifying, the extra cam helps breathing by far.

SSS · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 07:27AM »

Think of the KA24DE as the CA18DE's "counterweight challenged" big brother. (meaning, the KA doesn't have a full counterweighted crank like the CA18)

The design of both these engines is very similar; and given the time/money, i'd go with a DE head too.

MAG86 · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 07:45AM »

CA18DET FOR TEH WIN BRO!!!

with the amount of time, money, and arsing around, you could put in a ca18det in the atessa, and buy a whole other U12 (Ti of course...) and build a turbo Ka24DE for that, then you would have your fun daily RNU12... with boost! aswell a the animal KA24det for play time...
it all depends (as most things do) on how much cash you have,
it is taking chr!5 over $5000 to rebuild his 24e, i would think it would take ALOT more to rebuild and turbo a DE,

a CA18det is getting rarer every month too... im afraid to say it but the best bang for your bucks will be a SR20det..... and im sure that blue one is still in S.A. with all the atessa gear (it was non-turbs...)

JelloBello · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 07:57AM »

mmmm sr20

but seriously, ka24det in an AWD drive would be insane - and i don't think I've ever seen/heard of anyone putting one in a rnu12. and as others had said, anything is possible with $$$

rathies · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 08:26AM »

think about the poor attesa box, if this car lives like your current one (old engine) did dean it'll only be good for one trip around the block..lol

eurisko · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 08:41AM »

[SARCASM] Dont be an ass-clown! CA20DET ftw!

[/SARCASM]

As for the ka24det attesa... well... as many have mentioned, and particularly budgie... Your looking at a massive headache. And i mean huge. Trying to get the crossmember to sit correctly is going to cause enough drama to probably give you a sub-cranial haematoma. But, as they say, Go nuts! If you have the budget for it, the time, and the patience... then it would be a hell of a thing to see!

But do your research properly. And i mean properly. Find yourself an RNU12 factory service manual if possible (doesnt matter if its in japanese... pretty pictures are all youll need

) and as much info on cross members, structual strength, alignment, and everything else swapping an engine like that entails.

When i was planning my CA20DET, i spent easily 4 months researching everything that needed to be done, and if it was possible. And thats just a HEAD swap!

Good luck mate, and hope to see a project thread soon!

SSS · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 08:43AM »

SR is overrated.

mag, it's not going to cost me $5k to build my KA for turbo duty, possibly $4k maximum; however in saying that, i am doing all the assembly/parts sourcing myself. only work i am paying to have done is the machine work i do not have the equipment to do so.

$1100 has gone straight away on forged rods and pistons, another $300 on stainless oversize valves, $400 for the new cam, $150 for valve springs, $120 for headgasket/valvestem seals, $300 for OEM bearings, $250 for ARP head/main studs.

So far that's over $2600 without machine work (add another $1500).

Budgie · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 31, 2007, 10:47AM »

Quote from: eurisko on Jan 31, 2007, 08:41AM

Find yourself an RNU12 factory service manual if possible (doesnt matter if its in japanese... pretty pictures are all youll need )

If anyone EVER finds one of these, I will sell my left nut for it

They are fucking impossible to find.