I know Nothing about sound ... Help !

[BlakeyBoyR]

  OK I have a whole bunch of questions here, some might sound stupid but I admit I know basically nothing about anything ! If I want to run a sub, do I need an amp ? If so does it need to be a 5 channel so I can have my 4 speakers and the sub ?
  What can you recommend as a good brand ? I've been thing of Pioneer, Alpine, Sony, Kenwood and Clarion. I figure they are all basically the same quality arent they ? Any suggestions for a sound setup in general ? Obviously Im going for bang for my buck. I DO want sound quality over volume, Im really particular over sound quality because Im a musician, so Id rather have the sound crisp, clean and no distortion and crackling over tonnes of power but the sound quality is low and distorted.
  Look forward to hearing from you all, cheers  

[BEEFY_1600]

i f ya wanna have a decent system stay away from sony and jaycar is best bang for ya buck get a jvc headunit wich can be had for 350 with everything u need a set of spits form jaycar 200 and a 4x100 amp to run splits in the front and bridge the rear cannels for a sub their is no use haveing rear speakers when u got a sub cause u cant here em for more info go to

WWW.CARAUDIOAUSTRALIA.COM and got to the forums

[Budgie]

Take a deep breath Beefy_TRX  

[noss]

hehe... beefy cant help it if he likes to get a lot of information across quite quickly  


jvc are some of the best head units for the money. believe it or not, jvc are quite the car stereo technological innovators. a lot of the other big brands are only just starting to match the specs of my jvc head unit that i bought for $300 a few years ago.

you can either opt for a high priced head unit that has amplification for a sub and 4 speakers already, or you can go the option of the cheaper head unit and the stand alone amplifier. the stand alone amplifier is by far the better choice, especially if clarity is what you are after.

after reccomendations by most other people here, (and beefy as well) the jaycar response amps seem to be the way to go for excellent quality bang for your buck amps. if you want quality, you have to be prepared to spend some extra cash on speakers too, the jaycar kevlar splits as suggested by beefy are good value, and also, the pioneer splits are definately money well spent (although others seem to disagree with me on this one) otherwise, have a brief look around car audio stores to see if they have any end of model speakers, or even 2nd hand stores that pick up end of model stock from retailers, there are plenty of bargains to be had. once again, jaycar provide excellent subs, as joczy so kindly demonstrated to me when i visited sydney for their 2nd cruise. otherwise, at the moment, strathfield & brisbane car sound have subs on special, with brands like kicker, jbl, sony and boss prices reduced.

[Tim-E]

Little off topic here maybe.

but is it just me, or have the price of subs really come down a lot recently?

a 12 inch sub is now unheard of being over $200.
JB hi-fi have a 12 inch kicker now selling for $120
a song x-plod 10 inch for $89!

[aussie-gli]

Nah, I don't really agree... I paid $150 @ JB for my JL Sub nealry 2 years ago, today the same sub is $289!!!!! Exactly the same model/specs...

[noss]

its just what they can sell and what they cant. they slash the prices of the stuff they cant sell, and the good quality gear that does sell, people usually still pay the high prices because they think its worth it.

[BlakeyBoyR]

Ok this is such a n00b question but why dont you need 6x9s in the back if you have a sub ? I mean a sub only does bass right ? So people in the back seat will only have bass and no "music" if that makes sense

[BEEFY_1600]

Some people say that the bass from 6x9 confilct with the bass from the sub and u get a lot of cancelation wich means less bass .It also sounds crap 6x9s should only be used if you want bass with out a sub. If u really want rear speakers just have 6inch 2ways and hp to 110hz and run em off ya head unit then u can crankem hard with out distortion.  

[BlakeyBoyR]

A simple setup of 2 splits in the front and 2 6x9s in the back is looking more and more realistic, I can see the $ mounting up as I do more research

[nuggetsmcgreggor]

From my experience stay away from Sony X-plod!  In the three years since they stopped manufacturing their stuff in usa (now china) their return rate has gone through the roof (something crazy like used to be 10% now like 60%).  Also stay away from JB HIFI; they know nothing, sell overpriced brand name crap (not to mention they're going bankrupt).  Go to a small business near you that specialise in car audio and/or alarms.
As for the sub,  its best to run it off an amp, most new head units have dual rca inputs for a sub.  But if you're getting front and rear speakers may i suggest you go for a higher quality front split (Hertz are a good brand from Italy) and also a good quality rear (maybe a good set of 6/9).  That way you probably wont even need a sub.  Wait about two months because all the big names in head units are just releasing their new stuff which is obviously going to get you the latest and greatest stuff for your $$.
I just bought a VDO head unit.  Very Impressive sound from a 4x40watt stereo!!  Must be that German Engineering! hehe
Anyway hope i've helped...otherwise, hope i've sounded like i know something!

[SSS]

I can recommend the following brands: Orion, Phoenix Gold, Soundstream and Rockford Fosgate. You can't go past these guys for sound quality with amps. Although, a decent 4 channel Phoenix Gold amp will run you well over $600....

[Tim-E]

look left, soundstream dont just make good amps, fukin sweeet subs too  

[James]

When i put a new stereo in dads statesman, his only requirment was no amps, so i installed a set of kicker 7x10s in the back and they sound awesome! the only thing holding them back is that they are running off of his head unit, if they were hooked up to an amp they would sound alot better. i think that these along with a good set of pioneer or alpine splits running off of a 4 channel amp would sound pretty good. as for head units, i would go with any either jvc or pioneer. both brands have a good reputation. this will u a good sound and should cost u less than $1000.

there is better gear out there that will get u alot better soudn but will cost u heaps more. ie focal utopia subs themselves sell for over $1000 alone!

[BlakeyBoyR]

Thanks man, I think I could be able to do it for under $1000 if I can get it installed for free by a guy I know. I figure $300 for JVC mp3 head, $200 for Jaycar kevlar splits, sub and box for $150 and amp for $200 or so.
Do the 7x10's handle bass ok ?
thanks for the reply mate

[RichTRX]

From my experience stay away from Sony X-plod!  In the three years since they stopped manufacturing their stuff in usa (now china) their return rate has gone through the roof (something crazy like used to be 10% now like 60%).  Also stay away from JB HIFI; they know nothing, sell overpriced brand name crap (not to mention they're going bankrupt).  Go to a small business near you that specialise in car audio and/or alarms.
As for the sub,  its best to run it off an amp, most new head units have dual rca inputs for a sub.  But if you're getting front and rear speakers may i suggest you go for a higher quality front split (Hertz are a good brand from Italy) and also a good quality rear (maybe a good set of 6/9).  That way you probably wont even need a sub.  Wait about two months because all the big names in head units are just releasing their new stuff which is obviously going to get you the latest and greatest stuff for your $$.
I just bought a VDO head unit.  Very Impressive sound from a 4x40watt stereo!!  Must be that German Engineering! hehe
Anyway hope i've helped...otherwise, hope i've sounded like i know something!

I have a $500 Sony xPlod 4x52w head unit, 6.5" 130w splits in front and 6.5" 200w 3-ways in teh back, as well as an xPlod 222w amp.

I'll give you my honest to god opinion, the head unit is d*mn near perfect... and I haven't had a single problem with it.
The speakers are great down low, but turn them up real loud and the rears start distorting quite badly, but then, only if the eq is on XPLOD.
Also, the front speakers don't have incredibly good bass, but good enough for what they are.

Don't always listen to what you hear. Personally, I love my Sony head unit and would definitely buy another Sony one.
Probably I would look at different speakers though perhaps some really expensive ones. Basically you get what you pay for.
As for amps, well, just get someting big enough to do the job... whether it be Sony or JVC or Clarion, it makes virtually no diff.

PS. What on earth do those big capacitors do??

[noss]

an engine's rpm's will drop (or the voltmeter in the car's dash drops) because the alternator is getting loaded down due to the amount of current being drawn. the alternator is being worked harder to provide power for the car's electrical system and bogs down the motor because of the increased amount of current/voltage demand. the only immediate solution to the problem is to turn your amplifier gain controls and/or bass boost controls down, as you are probably pushing the limits of your system with the existing charging system in your vehicle.

a moderate solution is to add an energy storage capacitor and/or upgrade the battery to a dedicated car audio-type battery, like the rockford fosgate type rf extreme duty battery. adding these items will give your vehicle a better source for reserve current during times when the audio system is operating at it's peak conditions.

a long term solution is to upgrade to a high-output alternator to increase the total available current reserve.

if a capacitor, dedicated battery or alternator upgrade is not an option, then a suggestion is the above option of turning your amplifier input gains and/or bass boost controls down or just not running your audio system to peak output. your vehicle's alternator determines the electrical capacity of the system, and if you cannot implement a solution to supply reserve current to keep up with the demand of your audio system, then your system will continue to be overloaded.

       
it is recommended that for every 1000w of stereo in your car, you have a 1 farrad capacitor.

remember my mate i was telling you about with the $25k stereo? he has a 3 farad capacitor.

[James]

yeah, as noss said, a capacitor basicly stores up energy from the battery so that whenever u get a bass note where ur amp is drawing a lot of current, it has enough stored in the cap, if that makes sense - it can sometimes be hard to think straight after an 8-10 day at work  

[JIMB0]

The amp itself should have capacitors in its power supply. Good quality stereo amps for the home have big capacitors in them to provide large amounts of current. A well designed and built car amp should be the same. You shouldn’t have to add them externally.

Also driving along at 2000-3000 rpm the alternator puts out 40amps. This means 12Volts x 40Amps = 480 Watts. This is all the power that is available before you start to flatten the battery. So all these amps that claim huge wattages are bullshit. This is because amps are not 100% efficient; they are only 50% efficient at best. Amps for the home that genuinely push out those kinds of wattages are very expensive (try several thousand dollars).

Say only half the power made by the alternator was available (240watts)(feel free to comment on this), then the amp would only be able to put out 120 watts. So if it was a four channel amp that would be 30watts a channel at best.

[omad]

Jimbo: most high-end car setups will always have Cap's and/or bigger batteries and/or alternators.

Noss pretty much summed all that up, and you usually know when you need a Capacitor, as when you are driving at night and your bass is thumping away, you'll notice people flashing their lights at you    (ie: your amp is drawing max power at the height of the bass 'thump' and your Healights will dim momentarily )

Also, I have to say... I've heard quite a few people saying good things about jaycar stuff... and I was quite suprised and a little upset, as they apparently manufactured a 2x150W amp for something like $150. I was suprised because of the price, and upset because I had spent about 4 times that on my crossfire TEK150.2, which is also 2x150. BUT if you look a little deeper, you'll notice that the SQ 'stats' of these amps are not even a scratch on the Crossfire, and probably the other more expencive amps. From memory the Freq. responce on that Jaycar only went down to 25Hz. There's other things as well, but that's mainly what I was taking notice of, as my amp runs my subs    Granted I'm only running 2x Sony Xplod 'cheapies' (the $89 ones) that are only rated down to 25Hz, but I know that new subs are going to be able to hit allll the lows they can.

So my take on Jaycar is: bang for buck, yes. It'll probably deafen you, and scare the neighbours dog, but if you're a stickler for SQ, or you want to built a system up to SQ, then it may not be the right gear for you.

As for brands, you've already listed most of the common 'good brands', but I've mostly heard that Kenwood and Clarion tend to be at the lower end of the list. Sony is a bit of everywhere. Some people swear by it, others will curse it till their bitter death. The subs seem to be OK, the only qualm I hear of is with the HEXAGONAL ones. Apparently odd shapes can wear the excursion quicker. The decks seem to be average, but I've herd from a few people that the onboard amps tend to suck and not be that great of sound output quality. Which is fine if you're running external amps

For the Beef of Beef HU (if you don't want to run and amp for your front/rears) I think Pioneer seems to be the go. Though my friend had one and the random MP3 play was only random if you didn't skip to the next track manually. Only a small thing, but I think it would annoy me

BTW car amps are being made to be more and more efficent. It's not hard to see why when you look at what they're running off

These are not all cold, hard facts, but things I have heard and learned along the way, and I don't claim to have in-person and extensive experience with all the products I mentioned. Feel free to correct me if you so wish

[Sticky]

i would tend to stay away from jaycar speakers, i bought a pair off a someone and the sounded like poo, and ive heard that they fail rather easily

[Pringles]

it depends what ones you get and i love jaycar stuff (i can get it up to 50% cheeper then jaycar by getting it form there suppliers) but yeah jaycar also seel responce stuff too i odnno how good it is though