Poll

Who would you prefer as Prime Minister

Little Johnnie
Kev'
Bob
Pete
Jtas?
Noss!
Pringles!
Kranzy!

Author Topic: The election poll  (Read 22317 times)

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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #30 on: Oct 18, 2007, 07:26PM »
Narx, i was just providing an opinion from what i had learnt in Economics, sorry if it was wrong. I wasnt comparing, just stating that historically that is what happens.

Yeah I was just clarifying, since you said you weren't sure.

Johnny's constant slagging of Labour is truelly pathetic, shows how desperate the liberals really are.

But do you really think it would be any different for any other party?  I don't really think you can say that Labour politicians wouldn't do the same.  Especially when policies are so similar.

Kevin Rudd is the kind of bloke you would see at the pub with his really bad Union Boss mates. He has been drunk and disorderly when he was at the strip club. Sorry but Johnny is out of touch. I haven't heard of him getting drunk.

Is this really what you would base your voting preference on?  Public drunkenness?

Fuck them all.

These are the major things I want sorted for myself and where I live... so I will vote for the party that will push for this the most.

- Pay increases for Victorian teachers to put us inline with the rest of the country.
- More cops on the beat in Geelong, so stop the endless late night violence that keeps flaring up.  Pull them from behind the wheels of their un-marked cars trying to catch people doing 55 in 50 zones and put them to good use!
- Get the bloody ring road around geelong built and sorted
- Make it MANDATORY for every new home in this country to have a 1000litre (or larger) water tank and a connection (in new areas) to grey water.  We are running out of water, its as fucking simple as that.  Do something about it you useless government fuck wits!

/that is all :P

Isn't most of that stuff state-level, Budgie?  The way I look at these elections, I'm voting for policies which are going to shape Australia as a whole.  But when it comes to state or local level, I think it doesn't matter who the politician is or from which party they come, as long as there is enough concerted local pressure (and the onus is on the local population to make these issues known, as is their duty in a democracy), then they will accede to what the public wants.  But at a national level, this doesn't work as well because the range of interests represented are so broad, so you have to vote for the party that best represents you nationally.  I voted Liberal last election because I was pleased with the economy etc, but I voted Labour in the state election purely because of the water issue.
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Offline cruizer

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #31 on: Oct 18, 2007, 09:19PM »
Personally I have no major gripes with John. Obviously he could improve many things but who can say that Rudd will be better? Atleast John has experience. When I see and hear Rudd talking it seems that he is trying too hard to be sincere and everybody's friend.

In the case of govt. spending it depends where it is being spent. If we have a surplus and the govt. puts money into reducing our environmental footprint through subsidising green products and practices for business I can only see good flow on effects. If the money is pushed into the education system, good, better pay for teachers etc.

The only real flow on effects govt. spending could have that I can see is inflation. However the RBA will be able to control this to a certain extent with its monetary policy, i.e. suck up a some money from the economy through open market operations (selling govt. securities).

Offline dave-trx

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #32 on: Oct 18, 2007, 09:21PM »
Narxysus

My vote is based upon. 1 howard has proved to good with economics but how did he do it.

1 He took away peoples rights at work.
2 Years ago he promised that the gst would not be brought back under a liberal goverment. What happened.
3 The children over board scandal.
4 Lied about everything to get the Australian troops into Iraq. The war was for supposedly cheaper oil = cheaper fuel. Where is the cheaper fuel.

etc

There are more but I have to go to work.

I find it funny that average loves howard. Johnny is for the rich only. The liberals always have been.

One last thing, everyone says Kev will do the same and lie. How the fuck are we gonna know what he is like if we dont give him a chance.
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Offline Budgie

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #33 on: Oct 18, 2007, 09:35PM »
4 Lied about everything to get the Australian troops into Iraq. The war was for supposedly cheaper oil = cheaper fuel. Where is the cheaper fuel.

I don't know why people worry about this so much, we have had troops in Afghanistan for much longer and we have alot MORE troops over there.  Everyone knows aussie diggers are the best in the world, not the best equipped, but most well trained.

Cheaper fuel was never going to happen and you know it Dave.  I support our troops and our government deploying them 100%.
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Re: The election poll
« Reply #34 on: Oct 18, 2007, 09:42PM »
I support our troops and our government deploying them 100%.

Same here.

I'll probably end up voting liberal, partially because my parents do, but more-so because I want someone in power who can manage the economy and who don't bend over for the union bosses.

Having said that if any party promises to abolish uni fee's they get my vote :D
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Offline cruizer

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #35 on: Oct 18, 2007, 09:45PM »
I find it funny that average loves howard. Johnny is for the rich only. The liberals always have been.

I have to disagree with that statement. How can someone support the rich when they tax 45% of their income? Especially considering that these people have usually paid a fortune in tertiary education fees to get the job. No wonder our entrepenours (sp?) go overseas....


Offline chr1S

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #36 on: Oct 18, 2007, 09:49PM »
I'll be voting liberal.

Don't give a fuck what my parents vote.

Liberal is for the "rich" people so some like to say, even if they are, I don't give two shits, I don't plan to be a poor arse for the rest of my life.

Howard is a liar ? So Krudd isn't ? I bet you my balls half the shit he says now he won't do if he gets the seat..all of them lie, they say things we want to hear (like the new workplace agreement crap, i dont like it but once again, i dont plan on working for an arse or anyone else for that matter) once they get into power they do what they want.

The economy right now is excellent, yeah cool, we're not right next to the US right now, but i bet you we will get there, Howard knows what his doing.. his very well educated (lawyer beforehand) and he may seem like a sly scumbag, licking bush's arse and what-not (you prefer to be friends with crazy arse north koreans?).. but im telling you.. it's getting us places.

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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #37 on: Oct 18, 2007, 10:25PM »
Yea i dont quite understand this voting the way you parents vote, make your own mind up! A mate votes labor everytime cos his dad does, his grand dad did, great grand dad did etc, its rubbish. He has a b. Arts majoring in politics and is now doing a commerce degree, how the fuck he cant make his own mind up is beyond me.

People need to remember that no matter what party is in power, not everyone will be happy with some kind of policy or another.

Liberals may be more supportive of big business and labor more supportive of average joe, but thats because labor has been historically run by unions, who rely on average joe, where as in my view, liberals support big business because that flows on to meaning more jobs.

The workplace reforms are not that bad imo, i work in the science/research industry, for the last 50 years or so, there has never been job security, its always contracts due to the fucked funding arrangements that neither of the major parties address. Its very hard to conduct real, continuous research and make real discoveries when the funding cycle only last 3 years, after which you may have to move on to a different area.

Australian workers dont realise how good they have it, they have so many rights that many other major countries would be jealous of. Its the unions that are worried about these laws, cos they can't get into the workplace as freely as they'd like, to recruit members and piddle i their ears about stupid little things.

My other issue with voting labor is that then the whole country would be run by labor at both state and federal level, which i do not think is a good idea. But on the other hand, liberals get in, howard retires, costello becomes PM, abbot steps up to treasurer and the bloody country is run by abbot and costello!!!

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Offline xxxx

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #38 on: Oct 19, 2007, 06:52PM »
I totally agree with everything chris just said! all so true! id also like to add that if we wern't such great allies with the US we could quite easily get ourselves in alot of trouble. I dont know kevin Rudds view on the US but im sure our relationship with the US will not be as good as it is currently.
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Offline dave-trx

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #39 on: Oct 19, 2007, 11:50PM »
I'll be voting liberal.

Don't give a fuck what my parents vote.

Liberal is for the "rich" people so some like to say, even if they are, I don't give two shits, I don't plan to be a poor arse for the rest of my life.

Howard is a liar ? So Krudd isn't ? I bet you my balls half the shit he says now he won't do if he gets the seat..all of them lie, they say things we want to hear (like the new workplace agreement crap, i dont like it but once again, i dont plan on working for an arse or anyone else for that matter) once they get into power they do what they want.

The economy right now is excellent, yeah cool, we're not right next to the US right now, but i bet you we will get there, Howard knows what his doing.. his very well educated (lawyer beforehand) and he may seem like a sly scumbag, licking bush's arse and what-not (you prefer to be friends with crazy arse north koreans?).. but im telling you.. it's getting us places.

glhf.

Johnny has proved to be a liar from day one. I think its funny these days how everyone assumes. They dont give people a chance to prove themselves.

If Johnny gets in he wont stay long. Peter Costello will be given the role pretty quickly. He is not even deputy PM. Has he got the experience to be PM. Ask yourself that Question ?

The Nationals head bloke is the deputy PM.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #40 on: Oct 20, 2007, 07:11AM »
I totally agree with everything chris just said! all so true! id also like to add that if we wern't such great allies with the US we could quite easily get ourselves in alot of trouble. I dont know kevin Rudds view on the US but im sure our relationship with the US will not be as good as it is currently.

Honestly, I think Japan and China are going to be waaaaay more important to us than the US in the coming decades, The US will never dislike us because we are a Western democracy with a common language, but our international ties should really be strongest in Asia.  In co-operation with Japan, we could really make a difference to the less developed nations in the Asia-pacific region, and in the process become our own superpower down this end of the world.  But keeping ourselves shackled to the US and its northern-hemisphere policies is a bit like signing the Kyoto protocol.  Well intentioned, but not the most effective course of action.
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Offline noss

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #41 on: Oct 20, 2007, 09:50AM »
i'm not a political person at all, but seriously it shits me when people are ignorant and pretty much throw common sense out the door when it comes to election time. i was thinking about this last night, and i find it funny how a few people here that have said they support john howard and the liberals - the reasons that they're giving are just flat out repeated off the tv ads and mailouts that have been going around. i dont care who anyone votes for, but at least rattle of some reasons that you've given thought to, rather than rattle off verbatim what their advertising is saying.

first up if we were less wrapped around america's little finger i'm sure we'd likely have less trouble to get ourselves into. there are plenty of other countries that survive quite well without being up america's ass, why do we need to do it?

do you even know what you're talking about when you're ranting on about unions? will unions even effect you? do you even know if it will be good or bad? does your industry even have a union? or are you just complaining about them because you are told to? are you even at all aware that there are unions around right now? do you even know what they do? personally sometimes i thought they were a help to workers and sometimes i thought they were a bit of a time waster. pretty much like most other things.. there is good and bad that comes with it. unions have nothing to do with the government, they're all to do with the people.. and if the people support a union or create a union, then guess what, you have unions regardless of which party is in power. saying that union bosses are going to be 70% of the people elected into parliament (according to a liberal pamphlet i have here) is probably the biggest load of rubbish i've heard.. have a look at all the candidates for each seat and tell me if they're a union boss..

and the tax cuts and shit for everyone, and the comment 'how can the liberal be looking after the high paid people when they're taxing them 45c in a dollar?' have a look at how the tax system works for a minute, it might be 45c in a dollar, but it all works out roughly the same in the end, and you know what? the big guys can afford it. i'm sure you'd be complaining to no end if the people earning $200k were also getting taxed on 30c or maybe less. how will you build an economy if you're not taxing people in relation to what they earn? the only reason your taxes have come down is because of the gst.. the more you spend, the more money comes in through gst, if the government make you think you're earning heaps more by giving you an extra $6 a week your pay packet, you're going to spend more money and they reap the benefits in gst.. not to mention the way the prices of everyday items have inflated over the last few years.. the higher the cost of things, the more gst comes in. the howard government have been throwing money at everyone over the last few years.. be it in little tax cuts, or the $3000 baby bonus.. he's buying votes, pure and simple.. but look, his current tax cuts are offering what? $33 more in the average persons bank every week by 2010? wtf are you going to be able to buy of any real use for $33 in 2010? oh a lunch or something sure.. but what about fuel, it'll more expensive, everything will be more expensive, your $33 is going to be worth jack shit.

oh also.. one last thing before i go.. the government has no control over interest rates! its the reserve bank of australia.. do you all remember last election when howard said 'i promise interest rates will no increase under a liberal government' he flat out made a promise he could not keep because he had no control over it, and guess what, interest rates went up within months of him being re-elected. but everyone believed him. any person with a basic understanding of how interest rates work knew that he couldn't do anything to keep them low. there is going to be another interest rates rise right in the middle of the election campaign though, around the first week of november, i reckon that'll hit howard hard because of the promise he made in the last election.

eugh.. if you're going to support someone/a party and argue your stance, at least show you've put some thought into it instead of blindly following what you're told to do.

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Offline Milford

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #42 on: Oct 20, 2007, 11:25AM »

do you even know what you're talking about when you're ranting on about unions? will unions even effect you? do you even know if it will be good or bad? does your industry even have a union? or are you just complaining about them because you are told to? are you even at all aware that there are unions around right now? do you even know what they do? personally sometimes i thought they were a help to workers and sometimes i thought they were a bit of a time waster. pretty much like most other things.. there is good and bad that comes with it. unions have nothing to do with the government, they're all to do with the people.. and if the people support a union or create a union, then guess what, you have unions regardless of which party is in power. saying that union bosses are going to be 70% of the people elected into parliament (according to a liberal pamphlet i have here) is probably the biggest load of rubbish i've heard.. have a look at all the candidates for each seat and tell me if they're a union boss..

i work in consrtuction, and dont want to be in a union. before work choices i was pressured into going to protests about it and was looked down upon when i didnt.
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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #43 on: Oct 20, 2007, 04:01PM »
oh also.. one last thing before i go.. the government has no control over interest rates! its the reserve bank of australia.. do you all remember last election when howard said 'i promise interest rates will no increase under a liberal government' he flat out made a promise he could not keep because he had no control over it, and guess what, interest rates went up within months of him being re-elected. but everyone believed him. any person with a basic understanding of how interest rates work knew that he couldn't do anything to keep them low. there is going to be another interest rates rise right in the middle of the election campaign though, around the first week of november, i reckon that'll hit howard hard because of the promise he made in the last election.

eugh.. if you're going to support someone/a party and argue your stance, at least show you've put some thought into it instead of blindly following what you're told to do.

The government does control intrest rates, even if indirectly through their macro-economic policies. Dont make me dig up my year 12 economics notes.....

And often the info in the handouts/ads etc (not necissarily facts i know) are pretty close to what has happened in the past, the opposition party likes to highlight these to remind people.

and the tax cuts and shit for everyone, and the comment 'how can the liberal be looking after the high paid people when they're taxing them 45c in a dollar?' have a look at how the tax system works for a minute, it might be 45c in a dollar, but it all works out roughly the same in the end, and you know what? the big guys can afford it. i'm sure you'd be complaining to no end if the people earning $200k were also getting taxed on 30c or maybe less. how will you build an economy if you're not taxing people in relation to what they earn? the only reason your taxes have come down is because of the gst.. the more you spend, the more money comes in through gst, if the government make you think you're earning heaps more by giving you an extra $6 a week your pay packet, you're going to spend more money and they reap the benefits in gst.. not to mention the way the prices of everyday items have inflated over the last few years.. the higher the cost of things, the more gst comes in. the howard government have been throwing money at everyone over the last few years.. be it in little tax cuts, or the $3000 baby bonus.. he's buying votes, pure and simple.. but look, his current tax cuts are offering what? $33 more in the average persons bank every week by 2010? wtf are you going to be able to buy of any real use for $33 in 2010? oh a lunch or something sure.. but what about fuel, it'll more expensive, everything will be more expensive, your $33 is going to be worth jack shit.

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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #44 on: Oct 20, 2007, 04:34PM »
The government does control intrest rates, even if indirectly through their macro-economic policies. Dont make me dig up my year 12 economics notes.....

Only via fiscal action though - the only way they can influence it is by changing how "heated" the economy is, and they do that by increasing or decreasing economic activity on a macro scale.  It's a pretty tenuous link, and the government can do what it likes and still have exogenous factors cause an interest rate change.
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Offline dave-trx

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #45 on: Oct 20, 2007, 06:04PM »
Finally people who aren't talking what they heard off tv or read in a pamphlet.

Good work Noss.

Narxysus, out of interest whats your IQ. I am guessing more then 150. By reading your posts, your one of the smarter people on here.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #46 on: Oct 20, 2007, 06:30PM »
Narxysus, out of interest whats your IQ. I am guessing more then 150. By reading your posts, your one of the smarter people on here.

I've never had a professional test, and I've never had the patience to sit through one you do yourself, so I couldn't tell you.  But my mum says I'm smart!

I just like try to keep fairly objective about things.  When it comes to politics though, I think it's important to think about the issues as a whole, rather than your individual preference.  This is why I wouldn't immediately dismiss some of the election propaganda - because it is not individually targeted, it should be reasonably accurate for the nation as a whole (if you can ignore the sensationalism surrounding it).
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Offline chr1S

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #47 on: Oct 20, 2007, 06:53PM »
remember the saying, stick to the devil you know ?
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #48 on: Oct 20, 2007, 07:00PM »
But my mum says I'm smart!

Fucking LOL  ;D
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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #49 on: Oct 20, 2007, 07:47PM »
remember the saying, stick to the devil you know ?

This is a valid reason for voting.  I've advised the younger people around me who are voting for the first time and are all "I don't care/know/none of them are good etc" by telling them "If you've been happy with the way your country has run and the effects it has had on your life for the past 3 years, then you might as well vote for the incumbent, because they will probably continue to provide that environment.  But if there's something you particularly didn't like or would like to see changed, then look at voting for a different party.  Either way, work to become more politically engaged."
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Offline chr1S

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #50 on: Oct 20, 2007, 08:14PM »
I wouldn't mind seeing a few things being changed to be honest.. but i'd rather work for $3 less an hour and have a strong economy. It WILL pay off in the future, holidays and overseas shopping will be a breeze and an enjoyment (here i spend my money on car parts and other things and get cut because everything else is so damn expensive (ie living expenses)).

I just know, who-ever gets in, things will never be 100% good in everyones eyes, but as long as the country is strong im happy.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #51 on: Oct 20, 2007, 08:21PM »
I wouldn't mind seeing a few things being changed to be honest.. but i'd rather work for $3 less an hour and have a strong economy. It WILL pay off in the future, holidays and overseas shopping will be a breeze and an enjoyment (here i spend my money on car parts and other things and get cut because everything else is so damn expensive (ie living expenses)).

Just don't forget that a strong economy can come at social and environmental costs.  Things like WorkChoices are without a doubt excellent for the economy, because a free, flexible labour market is an excellent economic lubricant, but you have to consider the social welfare of those who receive the crappiest treatment because of it.  That is to say, any system will have winners and losers for an end goal, and you have to make sure the losers aren't so badly hurt that it makes the end goal worthless.

Also consider that nothing is free, so the things that you value in the future (holidays etc) may also have a cost in the future which you aren't fully aware of or aren't putting in perspective.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #52 on: Oct 20, 2007, 08:29PM »
Like what price ? A tax for leaving the country ? I wouldn't doubt it  :D
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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline cruizer

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #53 on: Oct 21, 2007, 01:07AM »
The government does control intrest rates, even if indirectly through their macro-economic policies. Dont make me dig up my year 12 economics notes.....

Sorry but no, dont make me dig up my double degree in commerce and applied finance notes. The govt. is concerned with fiscal policy-  the need to fund capital expenditures and recurrent operations. The Reserve Bank of Australia is concerned with monetray policy- manipulation of money supply through deliberate operations (buying and selling of govt. securities and controlleing of overnight interest rates).

Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #54 on: Oct 21, 2007, 03:40AM »
Sorry but no, dont make me dig up my double degree in commerce and applied finance notes. The govt. is concerned with fiscal policy-  the need to fund capital expenditures and recurrent operations. The Reserve Bank of Australia is concerned with monetray policy- manipulation of money supply through deliberate operations (buying and selling of govt. securities and controlleing of overnight interest rates).

Interest rates change to maintain inflation in the 2-3% band.  Short-term inflation is caused by strong economic activity and a positive future outlook, so people borrow more and more.  Economic activity is strongly influenced by the fiscal actions of government.  It is indirect, but the government does influence the interest rate - if taxes were jacked up and the government didn't spend much, then interest rates would probably fall, to prevent deflation caused by low economic activity.

Like what price ? A tax for leaving the country ? I wouldn't doubt it  :D

Well I don't know for sure.  But I wouldn't expect air travel to get cheaper in future - as oil prices rise, the cost of air travel will become prohibitively expensive.  Buying stuff in other countries might be more expensive than you think if China ends up going down the crapper because of it's environmental problems etc, as there'll be no supply of mass produced Chinese goods.  If anything happens to our capacity to supply commodities, or the demand for them falters, the value of the dollar will plunge, making overseas travel expensive.
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Re: The election poll
« Reply #55 on: Oct 21, 2007, 10:48AM »
This is a great thread to read, seems we have an awesome debate going on. Great points all round.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #56 on: Oct 21, 2007, 03:53PM »
How do you lot feel about the broadband issue?  Personally, I can live with what we have.  At least we've got broadband.  I think I'd rather see the money spent on other services, or if it has to be on broadband, then spent on increasing coverage rather than bandwidth (though I guess they would sorta go hand in hand).
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Re: The election poll
« Reply #57 on: Oct 21, 2007, 06:46PM »
Did I write that post last night? Haha I was soo drunk. I do agree with what you say though narx.

How do you lot feel about the broadband issue?  Personally, I can live with what we have.  At least we've got broadband.  I think I'd rather see the money spent on other services, or if it has to be on broadband, then spent on increasing coverage rather than bandwidth (though I guess they would sorta go hand in hand).

Personally I think they need to make sure that all Aussies in the outback have better phone lines etc before we even think about internet. I know its mostly up to Telstra but I think thats kind of more important. In my humble opinion that money could be better spent elsewhere.

Offline bogan_bob

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #58 on: Oct 21, 2007, 09:51PM »
The bush doesnt really need phone lines, they need mobile coverage, the telstra 3g network is pretty good but still has many, many stupid holes. The govt needs to further deregulate telstra and open up the infrastructure so its competitors can access this market (despite how relatively small it is).

As for broadband, i agree with narxysus, i think my broadband is quite good and there is still faster plans out there.

Boring as you may think it is, im watchin the debate tonight. I think Howard is doing quite well, he progresses fowards, has made a few policy announcements and explains what the govt plans to do if re-elected but seems to be hogging the time a bit. Rudd seems on the backfoot a bit and continues to bash Howard and his policies. Yes its a debate but most of his replies to questions etc seem to concentrate on what howard has done in the past and less on what labor plans to do if they are elected.

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Offline noss

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Re: The election poll
« Reply #59 on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:32AM »
i work in consrtuction, and dont want to be in a union. before work choices i was pressured into going to protests about it and was looked down upon when i didnt.
unionism will be a steb backward for the building industry. no one here knows of the demarcation disputes and union thuggery that went on in the 80's.

oh yeh i'm not saying i agree with unions at all hey.. there are good and bad things but i think the bad outweighs the good in most instances.. my dads in the construction industry, and me being in engineering i'm kind of sitting on the sideline.. unions are a much bigger thing down south than up here in queensland.. victoria is worse than nsw i believe, but i might be wrong.. but all the strikes and shit and stuff unions have tried to impose on workers which drag out construction times to rediculous lengths.. its just rubbish.. but you have blokes that love it cause they're bludgers and a strike means they dont have to work..

what i was actually saying in my long winded rant was the people that are complaining about unions in this thread.. are unions going to affect them at all? i dont know what everyone here does, but i reckon a good few of the people arent in construction.. they'd be accountants or people working at coles or something like that..


oh also someone mentioned surplus much earlier.. i want to know, why should a government have a huge surplus? why dont they spend some bloody money on the country? as i said earlier i'm not into politics much at all, so maybe i got it all wrong, but shouldnt money be spent on services and what not to make the country better? (not till we have no surplus tho) or is it just another 'hey look at me i gots me some money we are the bestest' kind of thing


and sidestepping a little.. dave :P i know you asked narx and not me, but i myself have done 3 iq tests.. my iq has gone down a bit over the years lol.. first one was an army iq test.. i got 163.. next one was 158, then next one was 152.. a few years in between each one.. i dont want to be tested again in case its gotten any worse  ::)

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