Author Topic: DRIFTING - RWD, FWD or 4WD? (Read 32556 times)

HIRO · « **on:** Jul 1, 2006, 07:56AM »

In an attempt to stop arguing in other threads on the subject, I have set up this here dedicated to the subject of Drifting.

In the past decade Drifting has become very popular, begining on the bendy mountain roads of Japan, this is now a sport that has become globle. RWD cars being the most dominent in this sport are often seen, were ocasionly FWD and 4WD cars have also (but very rarely) been known to take part in such a sport, mainly through the mountain roads of Japan were FWD and 4WD have an advantage in fast cornering. The techniques of drifting in FWD's and 4WD differ from a RWD car, and this also requires the car (like a rwd) to be specialy set up (but in its own unique way) to enable drifting to its fullest.

Many people have argued about - if a FWD or even a 4WD are capable of Drifting, 4WD being a bit more accepted into the sport because of the R32 GTR Skylines etc using the Attesa drivline and Evolution Lancers (still being east west mount) with some drive to the rear - but still being more FWD. There have been various Honda Civics set up for mountain drifting in Japan, as seen on the Japanese Animation series known as 'Initial-D' so why do people bag FWD cars when it comes to drifting. It has been seen and it is possible. Please state your opinions on the subject of drivlines in Drifting.

HIRO · « **Reply #1 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 08:05AM »

Quote from: u12-910 on Jun 30, 2006, 11:01PM

and you cant drift a fwd drive car. its just not possible as theres no drive to the rear wheels. you can get it sideways but its pretty boring to watch. but im not bagging you champ just my honest opinion.

I agree that watching the fwd drift may not be as fun to watch as the tyre smoking RWD's, but its sure fun to do. You don't get all the smoke coming from the rear like in the RWD were the weels keep spinning, but you can manage the front wheels to spin while you take the slide - this requires much practice. Sliding is drifting, its not about "drive" from the rear, its about getting your car sideways and keeping it that way through a corner, RWD or not, it doesnt matter. Most people just don't bother cos its harder and using the handbrake can be quite hectic at times. FWD Drifting is a prestige sport and requires the use of other skills such a the 'Break-Drift' and 'Handbreak method.' Then there is the 'Torque-steering methods' also the use of Speed-Drifting (timing and presition of entering a corner with the correct breaking and speed before entering a corner.) For drift comps, I would rather use my R31, but for mountain drifting and things like that were the roads are narrow, and especialy in the rain, I would use an FWD or 4WD anyday over a RWD. I think both are good for different types of events, tracks, roads, terrain etc.

Quote from: chr1S on Jun 30, 2006, 11:29PM

drifting isn't controlled oversteer guys....it's all to do with understeering.

Correct!

noss · « **Reply #2 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 09:22AM »

the guys will probably punch me in the nose for posting this.. but fwd drifting is possible to an extent.. and no, i'm not talking retarted handbraking around corners. the way my car is setup it has a tendandcy to oversteer a little, but that doesnt mean i go out and drift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ATK11_VQm0&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtB5Df6_PBQ&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ5kIejAu6E

i'm not in any way condoning/agreeing with fwd drift or drift on the street or whatever.. they're just some vids i found yesterday when looking for quad throttle b16a powered hondas

chr1S · « **Reply #3 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 10:07AM »

j00 use the weight transfer to drift a fwd maenz !

it's possible... but meh, people say it's wannabe drifting because it all started out with FR layouts.

SSS · « **Reply #4 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 10:51AM »

Going sideways for a few corners does not constitute real motorsport. Plain and simple.

DeathPlaza · « **Reply #5 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 10:55AM »

grip driving is cooler, unless you know how to actually cut time by drifting, which is practically impossible. well actually, drifting is cooler, whereas grip driving makes more sense. i want a car to drift in but i know that it would be a waste to try on the stanza or my civic, i think it would just lead to wearing out every bushing/ balljoint on the car in record time, as though my trailing arm bushings weren't already shot anyways. i'de say unless you own a garage with lots of equipment drifting is gonna take up all your time, and you better have some deep pockets to afford blowing trannys and suspension components and maybe even your engine. not that anyone ever said any kind of racing is cheap but drifting is basically making the car do everything it was designed not to do.

imo i think there should be a completely different term for "ff drifting" which im sure people have already made up. but since you dont use the same techniques to initiate the slide, it should be classified as something else.

noss · « **Reply #6 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 11:19AM »

Quote from: DeathPlaza on Jul 1, 2006, 10:55AM

imo i think there should be a completely different term for "ff drifting" which im sure people have already made up. but since you dont use the same techniques to initiate the slide, it should be classified as something else.

the guys here came up with the term 'poling' cause people run into poles when doing it.

i'm not a fan of drift, although i've been watching it a little bit lately.. you just cant compare rwd drift to the fwd equivelent, whatever that is.

DeathPlaza · « **Reply #7 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 12:04PM »

Quote from: noss on Jul 1, 2006, 11:19AM

the guys here came up with the term 'poling' cause people run into poles when doing it.

i'm not a fan of drift, although i've been watching it a little bit lately.. you just cant compare rwd drift to the fwd equivelent, whatever that is.

hmm i dont think anyone would want to aspire to be the greatest at "poling" i think people might mistake that for something else which could result in an unsavory reputation. haardiharharhar

bogan_bob · « **Reply #8 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 04:41PM »

FF can't drift in the conventional term, rather most of it is 'feigning', using the weight of the car to push the rear out. I know this is a technique used by FR drifters but they have a number of other techniques at their disposal (not only a handbrake) and have a more complete drift in all corners (i think anway).

Also, note that many of the normally 4WD cars used in drifting in the Drift Australia comp (there are a couple of WRXs, GTRs and now an EVO or 2) are converted to strictly RWD so not really 4WD drifters.

Also drift is not really directly comparable to grip racing and neither could you say rallying is. They are all motorsport but fit into different categories so stop whinging and bitching about how drifting sucks because it isn't like traditional tarmac racing because it isnt supposed to be (sorry i know no one has done this yet but im anticipating it

)

Jtas · « **Reply #9 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 05:35PM »

What about no wheel drifting?

look at all dat sidwayz aktion yo!~

Jono · « **Reply #10 on:** Jul 1, 2006, 05:48PM »

Quote from: DeathPlaza on Jul 1, 2006, 10:55AM

but since you dont use the same techniques to initiate the slide, it should be classified as something else.

Most of the drifting techniques are the same, the only techniques you can't use in a FWD are power oversteer and locking up the rear wheels when downshifting.

Budgie · « **Reply #11 on:** Jul 2, 2006, 05:13AM »

Drifting is a load of crap... full stop.

Try lapping a track as fast as possible in your car... thats 1000 times better than flipped the ass out on a few corners in a row, burning rubber and hammering your rear diff while doing so.

HIRO · « **Reply #12 on:** Jul 2, 2006, 05:40AM »

Quote from: noss on Jul 1, 2006, 09:22AM

i'm not in any way condoning/agreeing with fwd drift or drift on the street or whatever.. they're just some vids i found yesterday when looking for quad throttle b16a powered hondas

A point proven that FWD can drift. While some people may not like it, its somthing that I am pasionate about and I enjoy the times that I get the chance to practice it.

Smiley Of Terror · « **Reply #13 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 12:22AM »

Quote from: Budgie on Jul 2, 2006, 05:13AM

Drifting is a load of crap... full stop.

Try lapping a track as fast as possible in your car... thats 1000 times better than flipped the ass out on a few corners in a row, burning rubber and hammering your rear diff while doing so.

define the word "better" mate. I prefer 'grip' racing. but you can't say one is better than the other. apples and oranges.
a plus could be to run a drift event before a regular race... then the track would be nice and sticky around the corners.

bigpud2012 · « **Reply #14 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 01:05AM »

Quote from: HIRO on Jul 2, 2006, 05:40AM

A point proven that FWD can drift. While some people may not like it, its somthing that I am pasionate about and I enjoy the times that I get the chance to practice it.

now HIRO is that a racing stripe or a drifting stripe on your baby blue machine?

ahah, u cant drift with a racing stripe u goon!

Rake · « **Reply #15 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 02:43AM »

I don't mind drifting.

It's not like anyone really can just get into a car, flick the wheel and pedals and have the car glide sideways through a corner and coming out fine despite all the noise and smoke. I imagine its a skill which requires practise, good coordination and rapid shuffling. And remember, the sport isn't necessarily just about speed/times, it's about control.

I wouldn't say drifting is new, it's only in recent times has it become popular. But you might see it in older TV shows or movies and stuff. It's always impressive when you see a car gracefully glide from one place to another in a seemingly impossible fashion, avoiding hitting people and stuff.

I reckon that bagging drift is a bit silly. It's like going into a restaurant and saying that the chef's food sucks. Now there may be some level of truth to it, but given that whoever is making such a comment probably has cooking skills so poor that they can burn water, and they're talking about someone who's experienced and does the job for a profession, well, who's in a position to be critical?

As for FWD/AWD drift, meh. I admit that you need RWD to drift effectivly. That's just the nature of the beast, so who cares. But I'll give admiration to those people in the civics because given the physical difficulty of a fwd car drifting, they seemed to do a good job of pulling it off.

As for going sideways being a stupid thing and not something that really holds any weight in other 'real' forms of motorsport, have a watch of this vid. This guy does some good countersteering to keep the car where it should be going instead of crashing into something, and just watch how he takes the hairpin at the end of the video. It might not necessarily or intentionally be drift, the way the car moves is kindof the same IMO. So to whoever laughs at drift, all I would like is to see yuo fucking try!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoh29SE24-k

HIRO · « **Reply #16 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 04:30AM »

Quote from: bigpud2012 on Jul 3, 2006, 01:05AM

now HIRO is that a racing stripe or a drifting stripe on your baby blue machine?

ahah, u cant drift with a racing stripe u goon!

lol.

I just like the look of gt-stripes, if it be for racing or for drifting, its all good.

VladIvanovic · « **Reply #17 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 04:32AM »

+1 Rake, a fine effort there and I certainly agree with you!

Drift as most people describe it is going sideways... That can be done in any car can't it?

and before everyone else goes ahead and criticises what drifting is because you think your a smart or whatever, go back to the people who have made this thing mainstream and have been doing it for ages - the japanese.
Watch the "Drift Bible" video with Keiichi Tsuchiya ("Drift King" essentially) and you might learn a bit more and learn not to criticise it so much

also, all the Best Motoring videos are awesome for drifting + grip racing, and the option dvds do a lot of justice to all motorsport.

HIRO · « **Reply #18 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 04:40AM »

Quote from: VladIvanovic on Jul 3, 2006, 04:32AM

Watch the "Drift Bible" video with Keiichi Tsuchiya ("Drift King" essentially) and you might learn a bit more and learn not to criticise it so much

Indeed.

Jtas · « **Reply #19 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 08:17PM »

I get your point here rake, but you haven't really thought it through properly...

Quote from: Rake on Jul 3, 2006, 02:43AM

I reckon that bagging drift is a bit silly. It's like going into a restaurant and saying that the chef's food sucks. Now there may be some level of truth to it, but given that whoever is making such a comment probably has cooking skills so poor that they can burn water, and they're talking about someone who's experienced and does the job for a profession, well, who's in a position to be critical?

The person that says the "Chef's food sucks" is in the best position to be critical. They(the customer) are the ones that eat and pay for the food, which pay the Chef's wages. If the customer is dissatisfied they wont return, and no matter how good the Chef think's he/she is, without customers there is no restaurant.
---
Whilst on the topic of food... It's all about an individuals tastes as to what is good or not.

I and quite a few others think drifting tastes crap, and we have every right to say so

Jono · « **Reply #20 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 10:55PM »

That last hairpin in Rake's video is very impressive. I'd call that drifting. Most rally driving is based on drift, someone decided it looked impressive so they started doing it in road/track cars on bitumen. So in a roundabout way it's basically a show of car control.

Watching drift events doesn't really interest me, but actually participating in motorsport does interest me. I haven't had any opportunities to do so yet, but hopefully that'll change. I'm most keen to try my hand at drifting and hill climbs, and yeah... for the drifting I'd prefer to be in a RWD car for that extra element of control.

ehh · « **Reply #21 on:** Jul 3, 2006, 11:56PM »

Quote from: HIRO on Jul 1, 2006, 07:56AM

There have been various Honda Civics set up for mountain drifting in Japan, as seen on the Japanese Animation series known as 'Initial-D' so why do people bag FWD cars when it comes to drifting. It has been seen and it is possible. Please state your opinions on the subject of drivlines in Drifting.

um...... just because a car appears in intial d doesn't mean it can drift..

..

anyway, it all depends on what your exact definition of drifting is, if it is power on over steer , then no front wheel drive cars can't drift.....if it is simply the act of sliding around a corner in anyway then and kind of car can drift...end argument...

HIRO · « **Reply #22 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 02:12AM »

Quote from: ehh on Jul 3, 2006, 11:56PM

um...... just because a car appears in intial d doesn't mean it can drift.. ..

What you see on Initial-D is pretty much how it is. Although its just Anime, its all based on what realy goes on, most of those cars are the typical options when dirfting in the hills. What Initial-D does is provide the viewer with the chance to see them all in action. No matter how crazy or far fetched the drifting seems, if you watched that video by Rake, you will beleave it because that last hair pin was frikin unbeleavable!

Smiley Of Terror · « **Reply #23 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 03:05AM »

back in my day we used to call them "fishies" and "slides" and they were done with our bmx's... oh how things have changed.

VladIvanovic · « **Reply #24 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 10:23AM »

HIRO is right though, a lot of what you see in Initial D is proper drifting stuff, its all legit because the guy that is japans drift king, actually helps direct the anime, and funnilly enough he taught the producers and creators of the anime how to actually drift so they also knew what they were on about.

So yeah just because its a cartoon doesn't mean that it doesnt have merit, in fact it has more merit then you would believe.

omad · « **Reply #25 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 02:28PM »

FWD and AWD can drift. And you don't need to use the handbrake. Having a bit of stereo in the back of a FWD helps

Sticky · « **Reply #26 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 05:31PM »

its all about the definition of "drift".

Quote from: ehh on Jul 3, 2006, 11:56PM

if it is power on over steer , then no front wheel drive cars can't drift

this the way i see drifting....do you see any FWD cars in D1? no....and there never will be, because they cant drift, they can "slide" but in no way, shape or form could they ever perfom feats see within the D1 comp.

i dont see how a cartoon can make people think that a certain car can "drift".

chr1S · « **Reply #27 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 05:56PM »

oh have a fucking cry...

fwd's drift in their own way. get over it.

Chadza · « **Reply #28 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 06:25PM »

^ yeah they DON'T- thats 'their own way' haha

CS2rex · « **Reply #29 on:** Jul 4, 2006, 06:36PM »

i've found that a flat-ish rear tyre in a front wheel drift can induce sliding/drifting, a fun day out in my gf's excel proved this.. the passenger rear tyre was down, and was going round a right hand turn. the rear stepped out heaps, was so fun, i went back and did it again, and again. heh