Author Topic: Sway Bars  (Read 5297 times)

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Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Sway Bars
« on: May 29, 2010, 09:05PM »

Due to my overwhelming response in the kings springs vs Pedders debate, I thought I would ask you all what your experience with swaybars is?

I currently have a 24mm selbys sway bar in the front but it still feels like it nose dives into corners abit, I have a 27mm K-mak swaybar I am about to put in, some suspension shops have told me it will actually make the understeer worse even tho I can see how that works?

Anyone have experience with swaybars or done the experiment?

Anyone ..................

Cheers

Offline SSS

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 10:07PM »
Bigger front bar = more understeer
Bigger rear bar = less understeer, tends toward oversteer on the rear

Offline Colby

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2010, 01:12AM »
so bigger to both will = more oversteer and more understeer = twitchy?
If both are a loss of traction (and essentially control) how can that be good... I'm thinking its all about getting it to that point where it gives least bodyroll but still decent over/understeer control.

Is the motto to this "upgrade both front and rear at the same time"

I'd like to know even though you only did the front, how would you rate the handling improvement?

Offline SSS

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 10:53AM »
At the limit it can be twitchy col, generally if you get the bar sizes front and rear right, in addition to springs / dampers setup correctly, the car can be quite neutral.

Offline dozer

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 10:56AM »
the car needs to move on it's suspension, weight transfer gives grip for braking, turning and
when you get on the gas. if the front dive's into a corner it means it's hooked up.
if it is a really bad dive a spring upgrade might be better option but more difficult on standard shocks
as you can't just reset your ride height.

also a bigger thickness bar dose not mean it will work better, even more so when ya
go from one brand to another.

sss is right, ya got to look at the complete package.

Offline chr1S

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 11:13AM »
Just saying this,

Arn't Selby bars solid? Someone correct me if I'm wrong please, but a hollow 24mm bar for example would work as well as a solid 27mm right?

Has to do with section modulus, right? :P
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 10:59PM »

Big Help  ;D I think its a universal mystery, the bigger on the front = understeer and bigger back oversteer thing I read on the K-mac website but if you take that onboard your saying I should go back to a stock swaybar on the front? I have a 20mm solid on the rear already and cant find one any bogger for the back, with the pintara carrying all that weight in the front I would have thought the 27mm swaybar would be the go,

This suspension crap is driving me F$#@ing nuts, I have kingsprings from 2 different nissans to make up my ride height and stiffness, I also have a set of superlows for the pintara but the spring diameter is tiny compared to the ones in it and I also have a set of pedders,

I think Il just sit in the corner and cry, If only I had a personal test track go the old trial and error

Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 11:06PM »

In reply to colbys post my car is a go-kart it pulls 1min 11 sec around wakefield park with 24mm selbys in the front 20mm selbys in the back, maxima kings on the front and pulsar front kings on the rear,

Im just trying to milk the car for all the handling I can and I have noticed a touch of understeer and a bit of a nosedive cornering under brake , I think it may have to do with refining my driving of this car maybe?

Has anyone put coilovers in a U12 if so what did you use?

Offline chr1S

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 11:33PM »
dude! are you serious?! 1min 11?!?!

Fuck me dead!!! Your only 2 seconds off jdmyard civic (k24, full prepped for track) sitting @ 1:09's!!!
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 11:35PM »
 Yep 1:11 is my BEST time im not that fast 99% of the time I just pushed it and came out of it with a set of shagged lifters lol hence my recent upgrades

2 seconds is alot I dont think il do 1:09 with this car

Offline dozer

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 06:04AM »
probably not so much understeer then, more you just pushing to hard...
get some good coilovers.. ;D

Offline SSS

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 09:09AM »
2 secs is only another 40kw and semi's ;D

shaun, there aren't any off the shelf coilovers to suit the U12, i'm modifying a set of S13 bilstein legs with new clevis brackets to clear the driveshafts and welding on coil over sleeves, bilstein inserts are going to be revalved, will probably end up running a few sets of different rate springs until i'm happy.

Stick the 27mm bar in, get a set of semi's and muck around with your front end alignment, in all seriousness, you may be able to pick up a second a lap easy just with this.

Offline chr1S

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2010, 10:05AM »
Shaun was it the full track of short track?

Considering you are easily 150kg heavier, down 70kw, you're damn fast.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 11:24AM »

Great Thanks for the responses, SSS I have the Nismo light wight rims with 235/45 R16 semis already lol and I dont think I can get much more power out of an NA KA,

Chris, it was the full track I think after a week of practice I was comfortably beeting a race prepped swift doing consistant 1:13's dont know I will try and repeat next time I go and put it on you tube, also did you take into account the weight of the driver? Im only adding 50kg to the car when I get in it lol how big is the Honda Guy might balance up that 150kg, although hed have to be obese

After the Biggest Dyno Day I was informed that the dyno that ran my pintara was out by 50hp so im running more than 100kw atw without the new stuff

I think I will go back to wakefeild and run the 24mm bar for a few laps and then change it to the 27mm and see if it has an affect, will let you know the results  ;D

Offline SSS

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 01:55PM »
Got any pics of the wheels on the car mate?

Offline chr1S

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 03:19PM »
Well his asian and weighs like 60kg himself :P.

Dude that's something to be damn proud of, most honda guys in type r's dont even get near that. You must be a good steerer.

Bring up the car and i'll slap it on the dyno for you, I wonder what this is making :).
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SSS

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 04:29PM »
Dude that's something to be damn proud of, most honda guys in type r's dont even get near that. You must be a good steerer.

Bring up the car and i'll slap it on the dyno for you, I wonder what this is making :).

+eleventybillion, i'd love to see a dyno plot.

Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 06:53PM »

 ;D Cheers the pinny scares the crap out of me its the funnest car ive ever driven but if you lose grip you cant correct it just does a 360 on you lol so its like juggling the understeer and oversteer at the same time

SSS the rims are chr1s old ones pictured in his avatar pic <<<

When I get the solid lifters and new valve springs in il bring it up and you can have a drive chris  ;D and we'll slap it on the dyno, I have to get SSS to tune it for me anywho its running pretty rich at the moment, at least the engine is safe

Offline chr1S

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 08:19PM »
Adam, your flying up and hanging with the boys for the weekend. You can use our dyno to tune it too  ;D
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline dozer

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #19 on: Jun 1, 2010, 06:11AM »
find a full slick!! they nuts, good for a couple more seconds on used ones.  ;D

Offline slim

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #20 on: Jun 2, 2010, 04:19AM »
Just saying this,

Arn't Selby bars solid? Someone correct me if I'm wrong please, but a hollow 24mm bar for example would work as well as a solid 27mm right?

Has to do with section modulus, right? :P

i have a document about the bar sizes for hollow and solid rigidity, cant find it atm.
found this Suspension Secrets - Part 1 Whiteline - Flatout 06/02/02
 
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With anti-lift, however, you get pro-dive - that's
the downside. Anti-lift on acceleration means
pro-dive on deceleration
was on whiteline website
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¤ slim's 1996 SSS Bluebird Project Thread

Offline dozer

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #21 on: Jun 2, 2010, 04:51PM »
my car has the whiteline gtir anti lift/castor kit, did alot of changes after it was fitted so i'm
not sure what it did. but dose drive mint though along with their swaybars. ;D

Offline Sik_bb_trx

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #22 on: Jun 3, 2010, 11:00AM »

Hmmm Castor, call me dense but what does adjusting castor do?

Offline SSS

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #23 on: Jun 3, 2010, 01:44PM »
It is the angle of inclination of the strut (ie angled toward the front of the car = negative castor; angled toward the rear = positive castor), positive castor is great as the more positive castor you have, the greater the negative camber you gain during suspension travel in cornering.


Offline pedro666

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #24 on: Jun 3, 2010, 06:14PM »
i remember reading a post not long ago from noss where he found N14 coil-overs that will fit U12 due to it coming with an adjustable camber plate(i think) ? i also found a set for the N14 that has this but they are the upside down set-up.
the words "race car" spelled backward still spell "race car"? 




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Offline Stalker13652

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Re: Sway Bars
« Reply #25 on: Jul 26, 2010, 02:21AM »
just one small thing im sure you guys would already know but just incase

suspensions setups are twitchy at the best of times and goin a little bit to far on an adjustment could cost you alot of handling and may take a lot of hours to correct

just be careful if your not sure what your doing
id rather be sideways