Author Topic: KA24DE Swap  (Read 8218 times)

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Offline Sticky

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KA24DE Swap
« on: Apr 13, 2005, 07:23PM »
I had a search, but came up with nothing.

ok, what i want to know is, if anyone does know, does the KA24DE drop straight into the same mounts as the D?, and can you use the D ECU?? ive found a DE for a great price, but before i rush out and grab it i want to make sure that there wont be too much hassle to swap them over

any help would be super

thanks guys

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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline Xnissman

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #1 on: Apr 13, 2005, 07:45PM »
yes, same block so same mounts. you'd need the DE ecu. I 'was' going to do this or just swap the heads but i want to see what i can get out of the E mtr & head. (also because i've spent dollars on the head allready).
Take it to the limit - take it to the track.
speed safe; club level motorsport.
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Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #2 on: Apr 13, 2005, 07:52PM »
ok, cool, thanks neal,

being a front cut, they'd normally have the ecu included??

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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline Xnissman

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #3 on: Apr 13, 2005, 08:00PM »
shoul do yeah. better that you ask them though.
Take it to the limit - take it to the track.
speed safe; club level motorsport.
Life is like a box of chocolates.

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #4 on: Apr 13, 2005, 08:08PM »
indeed!!

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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline Colby

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #5 on: Apr 13, 2005, 10:15PM »
Ok here is the rundown... since i have done it i know exactly the story!

I thought it would drop strait in, but it seems that the block is slightly different.  I had to use the E front mount bracket from the engine, and it was 10mm off to one side, with a bit of drilling to reposition it was fine.  But this may not be an issue with the DE bracket.

The DE loom needs to be integrated into the E loom at the fusebox near the battery,  and again in the cabin leading to the console.  But since i have all the wiring i can make up basic wiring diagrams.  The AFM has different plug in the DE, but since its a front cut you wont have to worry.

The airbox is different, good oppertunity to put in a CAI!

The radiator pipes you will have to get creative with, i used the E top hose for the bottom on the DE and the bottom hose from a 2lt on the top of the DE.

Change over the water temp sensor.

Thats about it... the worst is the wireing, i'm happy to help there.  But i did hear that whoever did the DE head swap used the E computer and loom???

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #6 on: Apr 14, 2005, 09:01AM »
that doenst sound to hard, thanks for the info colby, i shall be taking up you offer if need be!!

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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #7 on: Apr 14, 2005, 09:32PM »
went and had a chat to the mob, and ive found out their is no ECU or loom


The DE loom needs to be integrated into the E loom at the fusebox near the battery, and again in the cabin leading to the console. But since i have all the wiring i can make up basic wiring diagrams. The AFM has different plug in the DE, but since its a front cut you wont have to worry.


Thats about it... the worst is the wireing, i'm happy to help there. But i did hear that whoever did the DE head swap used the E computer and loom???

do u know where i can get my hands on the info about the DE uning the E ECU and loom Colby???

Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline Colby

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #8 on: Apr 14, 2005, 10:45PM »
I think it was '91stanzapusha' that has used the E loom and ecu for a DE setup... but he is from the US, so i dont think he visits the site often, you could try his email. 
I got a heap of handwritten notes by my sparky when he did mine.  I can copy them and send them to you if they will help at all.  Otherwise all i can do is take pics.

Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #9 on: Apr 14, 2005, 10:58PM »
Apparently internally the E and DE distributors are the same. It should only be a matter of connecting the wiring.

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #10 on: Apr 15, 2005, 12:18AM »
ok so all i need to do is adapt the wiring to suit the DE Dizzy??, sorry guys, i just want to make sure its going to work  :P

Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #11 on: Apr 15, 2005, 12:36AM »
I'd take both distributors to an auto elec to have the output signal checked on a CRO or something like that, if they match, then it will work.

Offline ehh

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #12 on: Apr 15, 2005, 01:15AM »
dude if it is a half cut, i'd say use everything from the half cut(ecu,distributor ect)...less mucking around


endounadably old chap

meh

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #13 on: Apr 15, 2005, 10:15AM »
dude if it is a half cut, i'd say use everything from the half cut(ecu,distributor ect)...less mucking around
obviously it'll have the DE Distributor, but it doesnt have the ECU or the loom

l

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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline noss

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #14 on: Apr 15, 2005, 10:43AM »
i'd say chat to 91stanzapusha to be able to use the e loom on the de.. if i were you i'd just do the head swap.. much more power to be had out of that combination

i cant remember if you have a chip or not, but if you do, you'll need it redone to suit the swap.. if you already one i'll sort that our for you free of charge.

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Offline Colby

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #15 on: Apr 15, 2005, 11:24AM »
Yeah i think it depends on where you like fooling around more... Head swap requires extra fabrication of covers etc, where as full swap requires work on the wiring. up to you.

Quote
if i were you i'd just do the head swap.. much more power to be had out of that combination

Although this it only due to the pistons having a flat top, you could just as easily swap the E pistons into the DE while you are doing the swap and you would get that same power.

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #16 on: Apr 15, 2005, 04:41PM »
i WAS originally going to do just the head, but i couldn't find one, just through sheer luck i found the entire engine for $700, which is about what i thought the head would cost, if its easier, and works out more powerful using just the head, i think that might be the way to go, at least someone has done that locally, so as for fabricating covers and what not, that sounds a tad easier to do than modifying the wiring.
i cant remember if you have a chip or not, but if you do, you'll need it redone to suit the swap.. if you already one I'll sort that our for you free of charge.

yeah, I've got the stage 2 chip, and that'd tops if you could do that noss  :).

Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #17 on: Apr 15, 2005, 04:56PM »
Although this it only due to the pistons having a flat top, you could just as easily swap the E pistons into the DE while you are doing the swap and you would get that same power.

I second that. ACL hypereutectic pistons for the KA24E, in stock bore, 0.5mm and 1mm oversize are about $350 and that comes with everything you need, from memory.
My advice:
- Get the motor
- Pull it down
- Get the ACL E pistons
- Replace bearings, get the bottom end balanced
- Clean up the head a bit, get a 3 angle valve job
- THEN put it in the car.
- Run it off the E ecu, and i guarantee it will be a hell of a lot quicker than if you just put the stock DE engine in.

Then there is the matter of cams down the track....

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #18 on: Apr 15, 2005, 05:28PM »

Then there is the matter of cams down the track....

and that means..... Billet Cams???  :P

Quote

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline noss

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #19 on: Apr 15, 2005, 05:34PM »
you would most likely have to have grinds done. i dont think billets would be available.

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Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #20 on: Apr 15, 2005, 05:38PM »
I'm sure Wade's could do them easily.

Offline Sticky

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #21 on: Apr 16, 2005, 09:39AM »
Thanks guys, SSS ill probably do what you've said, work out waaay better in the long run doing it that way, plus ehh wants the E for some oddball modding (read de-stroking)

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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so f**king temperamental.

The Human Torch was denied a bank loan

Offline 91Stanzapusha

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2005, 10:17AM »
I'M STILL ALIVE!! BUT THE STANZA IS NOT( fried the rings, what do you expect from a motor with 150k on it!) :'(  I now have a 2001 jetta that i am foolin wit. As far as the de head swap goes, i am THE INFORMATION source i'll start checkin back every day to answer any questions. FYI the wiring and ecu for the "e" can stay no need to change. Distributor output is the same. All you'll need for the swap is the water pump, the manifolds and all the hardware, starter from U13 and oil filter housing from U13(thats the thing it screws on to)
Just fall......AND DONT GET UP!!

Offline Chadza

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2005, 01:23PM »
heyyy, sounds a bit easier now that someone has actually done it and knows what is required. Any chance of writing up a quick guide on how you did it? Doesn't have to be an essay but maybe include what things you had problems with, what you would do differently next time. These things can be VERY  beneficial to people are looking into this.  ;D

Chad
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Offline Rake

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2005, 03:27PM »
A guide would be dandy. I feel my engines gunna be up for an overhaul soon - I think I can hear the timing chain making some small occasional rattles, and AFAIK it's the original one, with currently 191,000 km's on the odo, almost at double it's lifespan! :o

Either way if I did get a rebuild I'd like to perform a DE head swap.

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2005, 04:52PM »
nah, chain's lifespan is 200,000km rake, belts are 100,000km. To change the timing chain doesn't require a re-build, just engine lowering on that side. If you are doing a rebuild though, changing the timing chain would be a piece of cake if the engine is out of the car!!

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Offline Rake

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2005, 09:45PM »
Fair enough.

But yeah it's something that needs doing, so.

Offline 91Stanzapusha

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2005, 04:32PM »
I could do a write up. I know it doesn't have to be an essay but in the end, trust me it will. I like to go into detail. The whole point is the head swap really doesnt have any problems except for fittin the "de" water pump and fabricating a plate for the extended part of the head and then sealin it up. I think it would be easier if people just came at me with questions and then i'll make a kinda FAQ about the topic. The swap for anyone that is prepared should take no more than 6-8 hours. I'm also to lazy to with all the school and  work i have to make a substantial guide to the project. Dont doubt me though, i can and WILL answer any question you have on the subject.
Just fall......AND DONT GET UP!!

Offline Jtas

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2005, 04:41PM »
Do you have any pictures of the plate that was fabricated (I assume it's for extending the timing chain cover?)
And maybe even measurements/a template that you can post up? :)

I'd love to fit a DE head one day

Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2005, 07:56PM »








from a 240sx rwd KA24E to DE head swap, but the plate should be the same for fwd

Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2005, 07:57PM »
If pics don't show i'll attach them. they're from imagestation.

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2005, 08:01PM »
they work fine, thanks for that, it looks alot simpler than I thought.

Offline RichTRX

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2005, 02:05AM »
what's with the helicoil gear at the end of the lower chain - upper chain sprocket? anyone know what it's for?
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Offline SSS

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2005, 09:25AM »
I think it's to drive the distributor/water pump on the rwd KA24DE in the S13 chassis.
I don't think it's there on the fwd version of the DE head.

Offline mike1988

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #34 on: Jun 26, 2005, 06:23AM »
From what Ive heard is that the DE from an Altima works great along with the tranny cause its a FRW car Im gonna do that and bet the manual tranny and have some one else do the swap since I dont really have the time to do it

Offline deviate

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #35 on: Nov 9, 2012, 11:46PM »
After installing mine tonight I cam add that the throttle cable needs to be changed to a u13 as its too short

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #36 on: Nov 9, 2012, 11:48PM »
Also air con plumbing and the u bend on the top.of the intake

Offline Pure_Sincerity

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #37 on: Nov 10, 2012, 07:03AM »
Unless you have individual throttle bodies :p it's a top mount intake manifold.
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Offline deviate

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #38 on: Dec 5, 2012, 12:56PM »

Offline deviate

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #39 on: Dec 5, 2012, 01:00PM »


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Offline deviate

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Re: KA24DE Swap
« Reply #40 on: Dec 5, 2012, 01:02PM »