Author Topic: afm wiring help (Read 23674 times)

LC_TRX · « **on:** Aug 11, 2007, 04:09PM »

ok so, i have read through the wiki article on how to wire a rb25det afm to a ka24e but still have some Q's http://www.antrx.com/smf/index.php?topic=5330

i have purchased what i assume is a rb25det afm off ebay yet it didn't come with the plug so i am now interrested in alternate ways to wire it up. the reason why i say i 'assume' is because there is a difference in the 'pin outs' on my afm and the one noss used. mine only has 3 pin outs, like the ka but noss' shows 5??

just wondering if this is going to cause a problem or have i been ripped off and not got a rb25det afm?

i would also like to know which pin out is meant to be the 5v and which is the 12v? (would the 5v be closest to the gauze?)

and lastly, what are spade terminals and is there any particular wire that should be used for this application?

hope you can understand what i mean lol

Jono · « **Reply #1 on:** Aug 11, 2007, 06:47PM »

Is there provision for 5 pins? Is the plug wide enough to fit 5 pins in it, or only 3? If the plug looks like it could house 5 pins then use noss's diagrams, and just imagine there are pins where they're missing.

I'd go to the wreckers and find a plug that will fit your AFM, then solder it on to the existing wiring.

Spade terminals are an electrical connector, they look like this:
http://www.mikesxs.net/parts/img250/12-0023.jpg (male)
http://stude.vonadatech.com/images/Headlights/SolderedConnector.jpg (female)

chr1S · « **Reply #2 on:** Aug 11, 2007, 06:55PM »

lol 3 outs ? are you sure you got a rb20/25 afm ?

mine has 5 out's and you can't solder onto them, you need the plug.

SSS · « **Reply #3 on:** Aug 11, 2007, 09:15PM »

Ditto.

I had to buy my plug for my J30 maf from SSS Automotive second hand.

Colby · « **Reply #4 on:** Aug 11, 2007, 09:37PM »

Sure its not from a Q45... they only have 3 pins same as U12. They look the same as RB ones too, except are 90mm, not 80mm.

what colour is the sticker on it?
I know RB20DET have green stickers, and Z32 have Orange, Q45 have Yellow.

xxxx · « **Reply #5 on:** Aug 11, 2007, 10:18PM »

i think VL/R31 skylines have the same plug as the RB25's? may not tho i just think i heard that somewhere

LC_TRX · « **Reply #6 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 02:47AM »

well i have two 'rb25det' afm's and they both only have 3 prongs??? the colour of the sticker is actually pink on both...

ill post up some pics when im home and get my hands on the camera.

the problem with going to a wreckers is that i live in canberra and there arent many u12 lying around let alone performance parts for nissans. ive tried every wrecker in canberra and quenbeyan (NSW).

chr1S · « **Reply #7 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 02:52AM »

That's a series 2 rb25 afm, E60.

The one myself and SSS (im assuming here) are J60's, green sticker, series 1.

rathies · « **Reply #8 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 01:27PM »

ca20 maf plugs DO fit z32 maf's

so theres some info. now the question is if the z32 is the same as the rb25???

chr1S · « **Reply #9 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 01:54PM »

no it's not

z32 has pins coming out, where I could solder straight onto them, rb25 has holes (like a socket)

and LC, your rb25 afm the 3 pins are simply, 12v+, ground, 5v+

eurisko · « **Reply #10 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 01:56PM »

U sure chris??

Where is the signal out coming from?

rathies · « **Reply #11 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 02:00PM »

yer he's sure. the maf he sold me (z32) has wires soldered straight onto the pins. so rb25 is different, false alarm.

chr1S · « **Reply #12 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 02:34PM »

How do you mean Ed ?

The 5v+ is the variable voltage the maf is producing via the hotwire, 12v and ground is for power.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #13 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 02:39PM »

ok so here are two pics...

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/lctrx/?action=view&current=P1020497.jpg

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/lctrx/?action=view&current=P1020496-2.jpg

chr1S · « **Reply #14 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 02:50PM »

You don't need a plug, you can solder onto the pins.

Find out what the pinouts are and wire them up accordingly.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #15 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 03:02PM »

cheers chris,

how do i found out which is the 5v etc? i assume that trial and error probably isnt the best in this situation.

which wire should i use?

oh and why was it that the series one came out with 5 prongs and the series two with only 3?

chr1S · « **Reply #16 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 03:16PM »

Don't know, maybe they realised an extra ground for shielding was useless.

Here mate,

enjoy.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #17 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 05:46PM »

thanks mate, much appreciated.

can i just use wire from dick smith or something like that?

chr1S · « **Reply #18 on:** Aug 12, 2007, 05:47PM »

Any wire will do, find something similiar size to existing loom wiring.

If you are having trouble getting the wire on the pinout, bring the afm up with you when you come to pick your stuff up and i'll solder it on for you.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 11:28AM »

ok so its old but i've only just got around to installing the afm.

ive got it in with the chip to suit and there are no air gaps after the pod filter. my problem is that when i turn the car over it idles very roughly at around 600 rpm. previously it was stalling after about 5 seconds but i fiddled with the wires and it now continues to idle (but as i said, very roughly).

the other problem is that it seems to have a 'rev limiter' of about 4500 rpm

i really need to fix this so any help would be appreciated.

noss · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 11:39AM »

sounds like its wired up incorrectly.. like 12v and ground the wrong way around, or 12v and 5v wrong way around.. or whatever other possible wiring combination there is.

this wiring diagram should help you, it shows a 3 pin air flow meter (right hand side of the image)

using that along with this info (ecu pin out listing):

http://paulr33.skylinesaustralia.com/diagrams/rb25det-pinout.pdf

someone please correct me if i've made a mistake but..

pin 1 = 12v
pin 2 = ground
pin 3 = 5v signal

double check that is how you have it wired up. make sure you're using different colour wires, i use red for 12v, black ground and yellow for 5v on my afm wiring. its far too easy to get wires mixed up if they're the same colour.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 11:50AM »

ok so the idle seems to be fixed but it now has the standard 2500 rpm rev limit. is that a grounding issue?

chr1S · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 11:59AM »

Are you 100% on your joints on the AFM wiring?

Check the diagnostic and see if it spits out a code for the AFM.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 12:12PM »

i dont have a consult cable

chris, when you tried to solder the wire on to the afm that wouldnt have damaged the pin would it?

noss · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 12:24PM »

you dont need a consult cable.. just turn the dial on the ecu and the red light will flash when you fire the car up.

if the wires have been soldered to the afm, it could be cold solder joints or the solder/wires could be touching each other causing issues, its very tight in those sockets, i would never personally try to solder anything into a socket like that, but then i'm pretty nasty with a soldering iron.

edit: 2500rpm means its not getting the signal from the 5v wire.. you dont really have to put it in diagnostic mode to figure that one out.

edit #2: there is also the possibility you bought a faulty afm

edit #3: check the output voltage (on the 5v) with a multimeter

LC_TRX · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 12:49PM »

the wires arent soldered on, it was tried on one pin but failed.

i;ve tried several different combinations of the wires and sometimes get it so it is difficult to start but wil happily rev to 5500 rpm. other times its the 2500 rpm limit (with a different wire setup that is)

i'll have a look at the diagnostics. its starting to really annoy me lol

edit: where abouts is the red light? oh and the car smells like its running very richly...

JelloBello · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 01:08PM »

Quote from: LC_TRX on Jan 16, 2008, 12:49PM

the wires arent soldered on

dare I ask, how are they attached?

read here for more info on how to get into diagnostic mode etc: http://www.antrx.com/smf/index.php/topic,4703.html

I believe the LED is on the actual ECU its self

LC_TRX · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 01:13PM »

i found the red light but it only comes on when the accessories are on, not when the engine turns over.

the wires are attached by spade terminals to the afm and flattened spade terminals which slot into the loom.

JelloBello · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 01:16PM »

Did you follow the steps in the above link?

LC_TRX · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 01:34PM »

just did it then, thanks jello. it comes up as (no surprise) the air flow meter.

edit: i definatley know that the wires are in the correct places but it still idles roughly and is running rich. does this mean that the afm is goneski?

noss · « **Reply #30 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 02:14PM »

ok, well if its plugged in correctly at the air flow meter end, are you 100% sure its plugged in the right way at the loom end? i made a mistake once and plugged them in backwards (ie i had the plug upside down)

get a multimeter and see what the voltage is on the air flow meter, it should be around 1 - 1.2v at idle.

its hard to tell whats going on without being there to look at it. there may be an issue with the chip but i normally do a verification on the write to make sure the data matches..

LC_TRX · « **Reply #31 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 03:53PM »

ok so i went out and bought a multimeter, i absulotley have no idea about electronics in case you hadnt realised already.

im pretty sure that ive tested it all correctly and it seems like im not getting any reading from the ground on the loom. i find this strange as it was working with the standardn afm?? if this is the case (loom grounding is dead), is there anyway to fix it?

oh and is it dc voltage that is hould be testing for?

LC_TRX · « **Reply #32 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 04:38PM »

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/lctrx/?action=view&current=163.jpg

so from the picture above the wire on the left of the loom connects to the left of the afm, the midle of the loom connects to the right of the afm and the right of the loom to the middle of the afm. all positions are as you look at the photo.

from the fsm the loom should go as follows ground, 5V, 12V. the loom is upside down in the photo so looking at it from left to right it would be 12V, 5V and ground.

if this makes sense but isnt correct then someone please let me know.

dave-trx · « **Reply #33 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 04:49PM »

Get a plug that suits it. Someone said a CA20 plug will work.

JelloBello · « **Reply #34 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 05:30PM »

To do what noss suggested (test the 5v output) do this:

1) Put the multimeter into dc voltage mode (yes you were right)
2) Touch the black (negative) probe to the ground wire on the afm
3) Touch the red (positive) probe to the +5v output of the afm

the reading should be 1-1.2v at idle (engine running of course)

also I'm not sure what you meant by "not getting any reading from the ground on the loom". How were you testing the ground?

To see if the ground is good:
1) leave the multimeter in dc voltage
2) place the positive probe on the positive battery pole
3) place the negative probe on the afm ground wire

it should read 12-14v (depending if the engine is running or not) - I'm fairly sure there is another "proper" way to test the ground but this will work fine

LC_TRX · « **Reply #35 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 07:44PM »

Quote from: dave-trx on Jan 16, 2008, 04:49PM

Get a plug that suits it. Someone said a CA20 plug will work.

unfortunatley the 5 prong plug is hard enough to find without buying the afm to go with it let alone finding a 3 prong plug!

i think i was doing it correctly but i will try agin according to your insructions (the ones from the packaging are never helpful lol)

thanks again guys. i'll give it another go tomorrow.

noss · « **Reply #36 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 08:39PM »

Quote from: LC_TRX on Jan 16, 2008, 04:38PM

from the fsm the loom should go as follows ground, 5V, 12V. the loom is upside down in the photo so looking at it from left to right it would be 12V, 5V and ground.

there is your problem right there, ground is in the middle.. from the wiki - http://www.antrx.com/images/faqs/rb25detafm/rb25det-ka24e-afm.pdf

i'm certain i uploaded an updated version of that pdf that showed the notches in the loom plug.

chr1S · « **Reply #37 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 08:55PM »

If it's not the above what noss said, check your timing with a timing light.

Mine was WAY too advanced and wouldn't idle properly, wouldn't rev and spat alot of black smoke out before Ed adjusted it from the dizzy and set it standard 15BTDC.

noss · « **Reply #38 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 09:10PM »

i just looked at the wiring diagram in the fsm, and it does seem to indicate that the 12v is in the centre.. either way, give it a go with the ground in the centre, as i wouldnt have uploaded that pdf if it wasnt correct.

also just a comment, try to insulate the connectors from each other, it looks like the wires you have there are getting awful close to each other.

if you cant figure out how to use your multimeter, you can use a lightbulb to tell where 12v is.. put the car in the ignition position (ie the key) but dont start the car, run a wire from the afm plug loom 12v to the lightbulb and then from the lightbulb to the afm plug in the loom ground.

chr1S · « **Reply #39 on:** Jan 16, 2008, 09:28PM »

LC, take the AFM to a computer/tv repair place and have them solder the wires onto the pin using heatshrink to isolate the wires from one another, you're definitely going to get a short one day, especially with all the vibration and moving the intake is doing.

I havn't had a look at what wires you've done, but try and use the similar to standard colours to save yourself getting confused. Did that picture I posted up with the wiring help? I used that when I had my RB25 AFM, but mine was those 6 pin or 5 pin ones.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #40 on:** Jan 17, 2008, 02:51PM »

ok this still isnt working. the only problem that i can see now is that the 5v reading was weird, it came up saying - .7 or something similar to that. is that a negative??

the ecu is till spitting out error code 12 for the afm as well.

chr1S · « **Reply #41 on:** Jan 17, 2008, 04:23PM »

If the multimeter said minus then a voltage, you have polarity around the wrong way.

Can you confirm which wiring method you used? Post up exactly what you done.

Don't worry, I had headache's when I did my AFM mod as well, but I was extremely nooby then

LC_TRX · « **Reply #42 on:** Jan 17, 2008, 06:43PM »

ive tried to take it all out and put the in normal setup i had with the stock afm and the stage 3 chip. its now not running smoothly either?

i ran the diagnostics again and it also came up with the code 13 which is for the engine temperature sensor, this was done prior to the r33 afm been taken out.

i havent yet run diagnostic with stock setup

chr1S · « **Reply #43 on:** Jan 17, 2008, 07:15PM »

I'll ask my mate if it's a headache of me to drop by on sat morning on the way to melb.

I have a feeling it's something very simple.

Rough idle could be caused by a vacuum leak, have you checked for some?

LC_TRX · « **Reply #44 on:** Jan 17, 2008, 09:51PM »

yeah i have checked for vaccuum leaks but that wouldnt explain why its running rich would it?

chr1S · « **Reply #45 on:** Jan 18, 2008, 11:43AM »

It can, err did you check the timing?

If you havn't adjusted the timing this shouldn't matter though. Hrm..

LC_TRX · « **Reply #46 on:** Jan 18, 2008, 11:57AM »

i certainly don think that i have altered the timing... definatley not since the it was running perfectly.

chr1S · « **Reply #47 on:** Jan 18, 2008, 12:06PM »

Take pictures of your current intake setup and wiring.

LC_TRX · « **Reply #48 on:** Jan 18, 2008, 12:17PM »

will do, im at work at the moment but at around 1530 (1430 antrx time) i'll be home so i'll do it then.

chris- i've got to work tomorrow morning too so if you want to come by just let me know what time you think you'll be in town. up to you

chr1S · « **Reply #49 on:** Jan 18, 2008, 03:21PM »

Cheers, I can't come past tomorrow, it's not on the way for him =/

dozer · « **Reply #50 on:** Feb 4, 2008, 05:15PM »

this may not relate, but my car was not running well at all. the afm had been just sitting around in the garage (like at a wreckers).
went and got me a can of crc afm cleaner and followed the instructions on the can and it is a different car.

would recommend it should you lot be buying second hand afm's.