Author Topic: ? max boost on stock ecu??? (Read 8970 times)

MAG86 · « **on:** Jun 9, 2006, 02:25PM »

Hey all,

I was woundering what is the max boost you can run a KA24 with just stock ecu and injectors?? and also with a noss chip? each stage?

im just thinking of putting a SMALL turbo, just to get more power in the low rev range....

if this has been covered before please link me...

im having trouble searching!

thanks!

bungs · « **Reply #1 on:** Jun 9, 2006, 02:38PM »

less then 5psi with a t25. Even then that's pushing the limit.

SSS · « **Reply #2 on:** Jun 9, 2006, 02:46PM »

I would say none, since you can't get wastegate actuators that run lower than 4psi.

DAN · « **Reply #3 on:** Jun 10, 2006, 11:28PM »

i maxed out the sotck injectors easy with a t25 you just cant youse the stock ones and stock ecu aint a good idea i think you will need a chip done up to suit your setup.

chr1S · « **Reply #4 on:** Jun 11, 2006, 09:15AM »

0.00000000001psi

nazstang · « **Reply #5 on:** Jun 13, 2006, 12:23AM »

Quote from: chr1S on Jun 11, 2006, 09:15AM

0.00000000001psi

MAG86 · « **Reply #6 on:** Jun 14, 2006, 10:40AM »

I just want to get more power down low, 5 psi sound ok.... just to get over the intake resistance and all... im no horsepower hero!

####whats a real small turbo that would be well suited?###

would something off a SAAB be good enough?

for the ecu...would one of the noss antrx chips be good enough too?

im pretty good at welding, ive done a few 4AGZE manifolds,even one for a 1986 Magna! so i will definitly be making most of it myself....

Thanks for the input.....

Kranzy · « **Reply #7 on:** Jun 14, 2006, 12:04PM »

Noss's antrx chip would be good enough. You would need to chat to him about your setup and what has changed so he can make a chip to suit your mods and boost levels ect...

I wouldnt just buy a stage 3 chip and use that as the fuel maps would not be suited to anyone on boost.

noss · « **Reply #8 on:** Jun 14, 2006, 12:39PM »

the stage 2 & 3 chips definately arent suited to boosted applications. they have been leaned out to 13:1 air fuel ratios and timing has been advanced by around 2-5 degrees across the entire rev range.

if you were to run a stage 2 or 3 chip, you'd likely cause some catastrophic engine damage.

running a stock ecu would be no better.

i do however, have a chip for turbo applications, but i would like to run it through some more testing. it hasnt been properly wide band tuned yet, although that is not far off happening (this weekend maybe?)

as for turbo size. simple. no smaller than a t25.

MAG86 · « **Reply #9 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 10:28AM »

im currently bidding on a t25 on ebay... looks alright too!

I called the guy and he says theres no shaft play and the compressor wheel has AR .48 on it... not exactly sure what it means though...

So next on the list is Injectors! Yay....

Anything above 370cc? can i salvage them off any other car at the wreckers? Where is the best place, best price.... not too large remember.

I was also looking at getting a Supra intercooler, they are so cheap, easy to come by... and small enough to fit anywhere...

Can I have a piece by piece parts list that you guys reccomend? ( especially the turbo guys...)
just incase i forget anything... do i need a fuel pressure regulator? Wheres the best place to hook up an oil feed?

And another thing, i really need to replace the seal between the block and gearbox housing, it leaks a bit now, very annoying. I may as well do a new timing chain and guides while im at it.... how much am i up for? can i buy the parts from any wher? repco/nissan/ etc....

thanks again

Sorry to sound like a noob but im not very familiar with these cars just yet...

SSS · « **Reply #10 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 10:44AM »

0.48 relates to how large the cross sectional area is on the exhaust turbine housing.
small = boost comes on quicker but restricts the breathing capacity of the engine up in the higher rpms
large = boost comes on later but will not restrict the top end of the motor when the rpms are high

for example, i have a Garrett GT3040R with a 0.86AR exhaust housing, that would probably make full boost at 3800-4000rpms.
a 0.48 housing would make full boost around 2000-2500rpm.

anything above 370cc is fine for running 5psi or more.
you don't need a new fuel pressure regulator unless your stock one is stuffed.
oil feed can be hooked up from the oil pressure sender near the oil filter, you tee into it with a fitting or a distribution block.

you shouldn't be leaking ANYTHING from between the gearbox and the block, that is unless your rear main seal on the crank has had it.
you have to buy timing gear from nissan directly, about $300-400 for everything to change the timing gear (includes new headgasket and head bolts if you remove the head to do it).

MAG86 · « **Reply #11 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 11:22AM »

Oh mate thanks very much... i thought a 'T' piece would be alright for oil feed...

2000 to 2500rpm is exactly what i want!
I rechecked the turbo and its a M24, with a T2 flange... easy stuff

would these 420cc injectors be any good?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/INJECTORS-420cc-suit-mitsubishi-toyota-nissan-etc_W0QQitemZ4649159840QQcategoryZ43807QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

should i look for something that has 'JECS" written on them?ive found plenty from a SR20, and CA18DET as well...

yeah i think its the main seal... not good eh! can i replace it from home? or would it be too hard...

noss · « **Reply #12 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 12:38PM »

sr20 injectors will not fit, i dont think ca18 ones will either. you need top feed high impedance 11mm injectors (or 10mm) rx7 is the way to go. you should be able to pick up some 460cc rx7 injectors that are a straight fit for a good price.

with different injectors however comes the requirement of a new chip or an ecu tuned to suit.

as for the fpr.. feel free to tell me i'm wrong sss, but with installing different injectors, i have read that you need to adjust your fuel pressure to match what they were getting in their stock application.

SSS · « **Reply #13 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 02:08PM »

I just assumed that 90% of OEM fuel systems run off base pressure of 43psi, which would mean no regulator change is required.

noss · « **Reply #14 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 02:40PM »

yep fair enough

DAN · « **Reply #15 on:** Jun 17, 2006, 09:17AM »

i have now got my car back from the intercooler intslall place and ryan will be runing the wideband over my car today.
i have 460cc injectors and a t25 so what ever ryan comes up with should suite you.

MAG86 · « **Reply #16 on:** Jun 19, 2006, 11:10AM »

great stuff DAN... ive only just read your project cars thread...

its so much easier when you can see what others have done! good work!

i didnt win the turbo off ebay, i will keep trying though...

how much would a turbo noss chip set me back anyway? would it be a copy of yours?

maybe i will get him to do it on his next visit to melbourne!

ah well the list grows...

noss · « **Reply #17 on:** Jun 19, 2006, 11:17AM »

i'll do 2 styles of chips for turbos. your basic chip which will fuel the engine properly for you under boost for around $140, and a performance chip for $180.

MAG86 · « **Reply #18 on:** Jun 19, 2006, 06:27PM »

Sounds great...
would it just be plug in and go? or would there be any extra tuning needed?

I have an auto too, if thats any difference to DAN's...

These injectors are getting hard to find too!!

Jono · « **Reply #19 on:** Jun 19, 2006, 10:37PM »

I believe the KA24E auto and manual ECUs are the same.

Kranzy · « **Reply #20 on:** Jun 19, 2006, 10:45PM »

Thats right, the autos have another control box on top of the original ecu, i can say this for certain as im running an auto ecu in my manual.

SSS · « **Reply #21 on:** Jun 20, 2006, 08:32AM »

Quote from: Kranzy on Jun 19, 2006, 10:45PM

Thats right, the autos have another control box on top of the original ecu, i can say this for certain as im running an auto ecu in my manual.

Ditto.

noss · « **Reply #22 on:** Jun 20, 2006, 10:46AM »

i've also run auto & manual ecu's, and the antrx chips came originally from an auto.

Quote from: MAG86 on Jun 19, 2006, 06:27PM

Sounds great...
would it just be plug in and go? or would there be any extra tuning needed?

I have an auto too, if thats any difference to DAN's...

These injectors are getting hard to find too!!

provided you are running the same boost, and stock timing on the distributor, there should be no further tuning required, but i have no problems with tweaking chips to suit your setup.

MAG86 · « **Reply #23 on:** Jul 25, 2006, 01:46PM »

hey all,

im still looking for injectors for the possible turbo project.....its not easy!

ive found these Mazda RX7 13B turbo 550cc ebay.... $265 any good??

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mazda-RX7-13B-Turbo-550cc-Injectors-part-no-195500-1370_W0QQitemZ260011120299QQihZ016QQcategoryZ43807QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

im usein AutoCAD to design an exhaust manifold, im still figuring out whether to have the turbo flange mounted to the right (gearbox) side of the engine, similar to the existing set-up....

##Can someone please post up some ideas?

SSS · « **Reply #24 on:** Jul 25, 2006, 02:12PM »

http://www.antrx.com/smf/index.php?topic=10972.0

It annoys me that people don't take the time to look through even the first page of the performance section.

$265 sounds ok for those injectors, however you will always be taking a chance on 2nd hand injectors.

MAG86 · « **Reply #25 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 02:01PM »

ive read that thread stacks of times, that manifold just looks MASSIVE... is it really going to fit, even with slim-line thermo fans? im probably more used to looking unequal length runners(i think), like this

i was origionally thinking of buying one of these, and cutting some of the sections, then adding small lengths to make it line up with a KA24 flange, and also clear the front of the block etc. (i would have to get a turbo to check distances/lengths etc)

this is a SR20DET, around $190, plus a doughnut or 2.... shouldnt cost too much just lotsa customisation.....

Any comments? Good idea?

ANother idea i had was to mount the turbo down low in the engine bay, right on the end of the existing manifold , just bolt an adaptor flange to existing, then weld T2/T3 flange to adaptor.... its a bit of a shortcut , but i think the radiator is too close

Comments etc are welcome.

SSS · « **Reply #26 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 02:04PM »

I wouldn't have bothered fabricating the manifold if it wasn't going to fit. And FYI the OEM thermofans are being binned and some new thinner fans are going to be placed in front of the radiator to push air through.

bungs · « **Reply #27 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 02:30PM »

Quote from: MAG86 on Jul 27, 2006, 02:01PM

Any comments? Good idea?

I dunno.. It has to be pretty much perfect where the turbo meets the manifold, there's not that much room down there especially if keeping the stock thermo fans. My compressor touches the bellhousing, and on the radiator side I had to cut out a plastic section and put a new bracket to hold the thermo fan up.

I suppose you'd have roughly 50mm more room if you relocate the fans to the front of the radiator.

MAG86 · « **Reply #28 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 03:48PM »

Ah i understand a bit better now sss, your setup will have a LOT of torque i reckon...
you obviously are going to have a real weapon when its finally complete...

hey bungs, I was blinded by your rocker cover, nice work!
Is is Very snug downt the front there isnt it!

Can i please have more pices of your manifold? looks pretty good...

im wondering too how strong the Ti (with LSD)auto gearbox is, am i gonna bust something up with around 6-8psi?
the CV's will definitly be upgraded,
but im unsure how strong the KA24 box is. my mate reckons they are stronger than the SR20 box? he says theres a way to adapt a ka24 box gearset into a SR20 housing or something.... i dunno

SSS · « **Reply #29 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 04:03PM »

The manual box is definately stronger than the pulsar boxes. as for the auto....well i don't think it'll last too long on 8psi to be honest.

bungs · « **Reply #30 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 08:06PM »

Quote from: MAG86 on Jul 27, 2006, 03:48PM

Can i please have more pices of your manifold? looks pretty good...

Yeah the guy who made it did a perfect job. I wanted a stock looking manifold so I took it to somebody who could do properly. If I made one it would look like ass. I've been pulled over a few times and they don't even question it

- more interested in my non existant blow off valve...

Looking a bit dirty in these photos because I was handling it with oily hands.

As for the auto gearbox, I reckon it'll struggle with a turbo. The CV's aren't the problem, you won't have to touch those. We're blessed with a farken good manual box so I suggest trying to use that

DAN · « **Reply #31 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 10:47PM »

i have done the turbo on my car and it kicks ass only thing is i blew all my engine oil seals from runing it at 15psi so i have now bought a white trx which will be on the road in a week.
i will probabaly get a few things fixed up on my turbo setup than swap it all acros.

the big things i learnt were.
dont run more than 10psi i am nearly posititve that the rings couldnt hold it and allowed excessive blow by into the crank case.
make sure you get good intercooler pipe nothing of ebay intercooler is cool of ebay but never get the pipe from there.
make sure you use a catch can on both the pcv and tapet breather.
make sure that your intercooler pipe has been beeded there is notheing worse than heading of to work and blowing a pipe with the new stainless that i bought it only happend once but thats more than enough.
make sure that your oil feed line is top notch it can empty your sump very quick if it explodes.
you have to use bigger injectors and you will need a custom tune.
replace your fuel filter its amazing how much difference this made on boost.
you will need good ruber and probably a good hd clutch lsd will help too.

i have had issues with the intire list. never had a clutch problem but at 15psi she has enough go to spin the tyres in 5th at arround 100km (if the clutch holds) mine did not hold for long.

i had marginal tyres when i started after about 3 weeks of turbo no visible tred left on 1 wheel the T has no lsd.

the last big thing i wish i had done was take my time and not rush it i would have saved a lot of time and money and potentialy hazardous situations (ask ryan he was a witness to this intire saga).

but never fear the new white trx will be done right from the start i was going to wait for my built engine which i am salvaging from the T but i know that it will take some time so i will try to exercise some controll and swap the turbo into the trx with the stock motor.

bungs · « **Reply #32 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 12:45AM »

The reason you blew the seals is because you didn't hook the pcv up to the intake of the turbo (thereby providing it with constant vacuum), not because you ran more then 10psi.

I made the same mistake hence why I swapped it with a spare engine I had

. In reality I didn't have to swap the engine, I could've just replaced the rear seal and the sump gasket BUT at the time I was more interested in what damage 6 months of boosting had done to my pistons so I swapped the engines over. Have to buy an engine stand before I can take the engine apart and have a looksee.

I'm running 12psi at the moment and it loves it. Proper tuning is the key, as well as a properly re-routed pcv

Jono · « **Reply #33 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 01:27AM »

Quote from: bungs on Jul 27, 2006, 08:06PM

Those turbos are T25 and T28, yes?

bungs · « **Reply #34 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 01:48AM »

yup, t25g and t28

DAN · « **Reply #35 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 08:00AM »

so with the new motor you are haveing no problems what so ever with oil leaks.

bungs · « **Reply #36 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 02:17PM »

Quote from: DAN on Jul 28, 2006, 08:00AM

so with the new motor you are haveing no problems what so ever with oil leaks.

well... Not from the actual motor no.

I had a split in my oil return line which i've fixed now, but in terms of sump gasket/front/rear seals it's fine.

I know i've mentioned it before, maybe a few times already, but it's crucial that if anybody turbos their ka that they re-route the pcv!!! Else have fun with major oil leaks

I never got told of this, and well, my parents driveway is proof of that

MAG86 · « **Reply #37 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 02:24PM »

im feeling a bit bummed out that if i want to do this i prob have to do a manual conversion...... what a mega pain in the arsh!

its going to be so much mucking around its unbelievable

you guys are positive the auto wont hold?

what if i just ran 6 psi? a t25 should do that easily!

noss · « **Reply #38 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 02:33PM »

evenflow is getting his auto re-built to suit the turbo conversion i believe, but i'm not sure what exactly he is having done. see if you can talk to an automatic transmission place about it.

for the money though, it'd be cheaper to pick up and install a manual box.

bungs · « **Reply #39 on:** Jul 28, 2006, 02:39PM »

Quote from: MAG86 on Jul 28, 2006, 02:24PM

you guys are positive the auto wont hold?

No idea.
Only 1 way to find out heh.

More fun in a manual anyway, just ask king asshat budgie.

Jono · « **Reply #40 on:** Jul 29, 2006, 03:42AM »

I say give the auto a go. If worst comes to worst you'll have to get a manual gearbox after the auto dies.

There isn't all that much that can be done to our autos to strengthen them.

dave-trx · « **Reply #41 on:** Jul 29, 2006, 04:29AM »

The biggest killer of automatic gear boxes is heat, if your box is in good condition, I personally think it will hold up. Get a heavy duty 4X4 auto transmission cooler.

DAN · « **Reply #42 on:** Jul 29, 2006, 09:28AM »

my big sugestion for you is to ask people here who have actualy done it not just talked about it as there are alot of things that can be overlooked i am proof of that just ask noss (ryan) he kept apolagising when the car died almost everytime he had a drive not his fault of course he was driving a bit like a granny, it was just some of my poor work due to poor information and the fact that this was a first for me.
next find a performance shop that care about performance not what car you have.
this took me a while but the bloke at rotary motor sport in brendale was great he helped me alot did fantastic work at a reasonable rate and gave alot of advice he did not car what car i had or anything.
btw my bumper and grill are held together with zip ties yet his only comment was "christ thats a bloody big motor i would like to see that on the dyno with the turbo on"

nazstang · « **Reply #43 on:** Jul 29, 2006, 01:54PM »

well i'm not sure if you guys have maxima's down there, but in my white stanza, i swapped the internals and torque convertor into the stanza, and it held alright. before that, i had a new tranny(stanza spec.) in for 20K miles, and then after 4k of nitrous, it began to leak out gaskets, and slip. with the maxima tranny(from VG 3liter motor) i guess the tranny was built to take more power, so it held up much better. i just added an oil cooler(vs the radiator cooling), and it ran like a champ. but... when it comes to putting power to the floor, a manual will spank an auto any day. 150hp in an auto will = 160 in a manual. $:-\$ i perfer a manual, it's more fun

Budgie · « **Reply #44 on:** Jul 29, 2006, 02:36PM »

Quote from: bungs on Jul 28, 2006, 02:39PM

More fun in a manual anyway, just ask king asshat budgie.

Fucking 'eh chris