Author Topic: Stand Alone ECU (Read 3767 times)

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **on:** Jul 18, 2006, 03:45PM »

Hey guys, I don't know if you know but there is a power FC for the U13.

http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/product_info.php?cPath=22_53&products_id=65

also suites

B13, N14, N15, U12, W10

Ill proberly be going with one of these down the track with even the high price tag, just because there proven to be a good product and most good workshops know how to tune them.

SSS · « **Reply #1 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 03:58PM »

How about bikirom?
A lot cheaper and looks as though he's got some good inputs/outputs coming up; nothing beats reprog'ing the std ecu.

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #2 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 04:11PM »

I dont know mych about it, Iv read alot of peoples posts in other forums about it.

Just thought Power FC would be good as alot of tuners are familiar with it.

Theres also the Greddy Emanage, which iv herd good reports on.

phreeky · « **Reply #3 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 06:06PM »

as much as i like the idea of reprogramming the stock ecu, there is a lot of merit for the power fc (and other complete replacements)

the powerfc will already idle nice, cold start nice, work with all the cars standard features and the afm. the big advantages it has over the remap is that it can be tuned by plenty of people easily, comes with a pretty hand controller, and actually replaces the stock ecu so you can sell the stocker if you want

Craazy · « **Reply #4 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 06:55PM »

this is very good i think, i will be looking to get one of these babies for sure. its pretty much the model of FC for the GTiR just retuned without the quad throttles.

but if you want to remove the AFM altogether then get a D-Jetro power FC. runs map sensors instead and i have seen a gain of 35kw's in a mild tune GT-R compared to the standard power FC

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #5 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 08:15PM »

Can you explain the difference between map sensors and a normal air flow meter to me?

I'm pritty sure ill be gettng a power fc larger and larger injectors, shortly after I get a 3inch exhaust done.

Jono · « **Reply #6 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 09:19PM »

Systems that use MAP sensors calculate how much air is going into the engine using the intake manifold pressure/vacuum and the throttle opening, where as AFM systems actually measure the amount of air going into the engine. The advantage of using MAPs over AFMs is that you don't have an AFM restricting the airflow into the engine. Since the MAP sensor just measures the pressure inside the manifold through a vacuum line it doesn't restrict the air flow at all.

Craazy · « **Reply #7 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 09:56PM »

excellent explanation jono, i couldnt have put it better.

so as above, less restriction means better airflow means more efficient engine= more power =

bluebird · « **Reply #8 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 10:05PM »

I am running an EMS system on my u13 and it runs a map sensor which can be an advantage over the normal
air flow meter. I have virtually no drop across my inlet and just run a temp sensor for the EMS after the pod filter.
However I must admit every now and again the idle could be better. On the odd occassion the car has stalled.
I originally thought that this was my idle control system as I am running a XF GHIA idle control but I would just put
it down to the EMS management system. This is where the POWER FC may be a better system as it is well known for better idle control.
Most workshops know of it as well.
My EMS system is really restricted to only a few workshops in Melbourne who have had experience with it.
Having said that any real good tuner will be able to tune most computers as the fundamentals and data entry
and mapping are all very similar.
I simply gave my workshop the software that came with the computer and he downloaded onto his system and away he went.

Craazy · « **Reply #9 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 10:15PM »

interesting bluebird, havent heard of many people running the EMS systems on there SR's (i assume and SR20DET)

since your in melbourne you should come to the dyno day in september. or otherwise we should have and attesa cruise, maybe squeeze a couple of gtir's and gt-r's into the mix to add some spice??

i would like to have a squiz at how your car runs

bluebird · « **Reply #10 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 10:23PM »

Just had it dynoed around 3 weeks ago.
172 kw at the wheels which is roughly what i had before.
They managed to get a bit more torque out of it though.
Since i fitted walbro fuel pump,mallpassi regulator and redone my cold air induction I was hoping for more.
In my opinion I have a slight pressure drop somehere. When I have time I will get to the bottom of it.

By the way on a different topic do you guys have the factory pin layouts of the u13 stereo.
I thought there was a web site somewhere listing all nissan stereo pin layouts but i cant find it anymore.

Craazy · « **Reply #11 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 10:29PM »

fair nuf. still need a decent attesa cruise

lol

on the stereo stuff, wouldnt have a clue, what you need it for??

bluebird · « **Reply #12 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 10:40PM »

I promised my son I would take him next time I get the car dynoed.
By September it should be a good time to do it again.
My aim is for 180 to 190 kw.
Anymore and my box may suffer.
If its around southern suburbs of Melbourne I may attend your dyno day.

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #13 on:** Jul 18, 2006, 11:30PM »

Cheers for the info guys sounds like that may be the way to go, that way no upgrading to a z32 afm and there shouldn't be any issues with pulsing that often happens with larger turbos and the like.

Hey bluebird you mind running through what you have done to your bluey to get those sort of figures? Power wise iv been advised by a guy at Croyden Racing that about 180awkw is about the limit of the attesa before going into big bucks territory, The guy said that not only do you start to strip gears at any higher than that but also the case can often crack due to pressure. ( I don't know how true this is tho because iv never herd it anywhere else and I know theres a few GTiR's around running in the 600bhp area with just a straight cut gearset)

phreeky · « **Reply #14 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 09:53AM »

Where are these GTiRs with 600bhp? Closest I can think of is a guy with 260kwatw up this way, his gearbox is living (somewhat), how long this one lasts can't be too sure. But yeah the casings can crack, some people have cracked them with stock gearsets. The straight cut gearset should reduce the force on it by basically eliminating forces down the shafts.

Can't remember who but someone on the bluebird yahoo group was pushing 190kwatw, was still on a standard box but he didn't race it or anything.

You can kill a gearbox with not much over standard power though, depends how you drive it. The shock force of launches or hard shifts are your enemy. Part of reducing that shock force is having a sensible clutch, definately making sure it runs a sprung centre too.

Back to ECU stuff though, a lot of people can't seem to get MAP sensored cars idling right which is odd considering there are quite a few MAP sensored factory cars getting about (i.e. 1jz/2jz powered cars) which all idle fine. Lots of people are fans of all difference ECUs, I know somebody who absolutely loves LINK ECUs, somebody else into Adaptronics, and of course there is the huge following of PowerFC, Motec, Microtech, Autronic, etc.

Impakt · « **Reply #15 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 10:29AM »

My u13 has a z32 afm and chipped ECU and it's never had idle problems. If anything, cold start to me is better now than it was when it was stock. For the stereo pinouts, try www.installdr.com

Impakt

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #16 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 10:50AM »

www.nissangtir.co.UK sorry I was wrong its more around the 500bhp mark, but thats still Heep's. I still think theres 1 or 2 that are running somewhere in the 600bhp area.

Iv read gtir owners here in aus running 250awkw with the standard box, again how long the would box last, proberly not long. Iv herd of pulsar owners doing det conversions with u13 u12 etc engines with a fwd gearbox and a sincromesh gearset running up to 270awkw. I'm just wondering how far I could bump the power up to after a PPG sincromesh gearset, before the case cracks.

SSS · « **Reply #17 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 11:19AM »

You are all forgetting that for a street car, if the HWP pull you over and decided to check over your car for roadworthiness, the Power FC is a defectable item.
Retuning the stock ECu via a bikirom or the like is the safest option to avoid getting dicked for an aftermarket ecu; afterall, how many cops are going to look twice at a stock ecu casing?

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #18 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 11:37AM »

Agreed about it being a defect, but if you have the power fc in the stock location and you have the hand controller hidden away when your on the street you should be fine. Most cops wont be checking through a u12-13 attesa as long as it looks the way it should (sleeper)

phreeky · « **Reply #19 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 01:11PM »

I've never even seen a cop look for an aftermarket ecu at all, maybe just doesn't happen in QLD???

Impakt: I don't think anybody was saying a setup like yours would be a problem, but it's common for people to whinge about MAP sensor setups.

Wolf: While I personally don't see the enjoyment of having to deal with a 600hp 2L in a 1500kg car, a PPG gearset should be fine up to that power level and I imagine the case cracking would again come back to shock force - that is, dumping the clutch and having a harsh clutch. There is a HUGE difference between sudden shock force and if you were to power-on while already rolling. One thing you should learn to do is, if you're doing to launch hard, is load up the drivetrain a tiny bit then drop the clutch (i.e. bring up slowly until car moves and then pop it).

The question also remains, how do you want to drive the car with all that power? Like I said I've broken a box with exhaust, fmic and more boost (and that wasn't launching either, but i was basically dropping it in 2nd while pushing 16psi through the mid-range as i used to do a bit to make it step out), but I liked to have fun in it

Hence why I'm running a PPG box with not much more than standard power.

Btw PPG told me "lifetime warranty on the gearset", and "until you start pushing over 600hp and regularly drag racing", but the gearbox build was only a 30 day warranty.

Budgie · « **Reply #20 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 01:17PM »

Quote from: phreeky on Jul 19, 2006, 01:11PM

Btw PPG told me "lifetime warranty on the gearset", and "until you start pushing over 600hp and regularly drag racing", but the gearbox build was only a 30 day warranty.

Gotta love that phreeky

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #21 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 02:00PM »

Ahh you answered my question mate, I'm no expert when it comes to cars all I know is what iv read. Reason I'm asking these questions is so I can learn more. I have no intention of building a 600hp car hell theres no way I could afford that and theres no way id want to drive that on Sydney's roads.

I just wanted to know about the strength because I'm planning something around the 230-250awkw area. Ill start with getting the car to 180awkw then when I have some spare cash saved ill buy a ppg gear set. Its good to know whats the killer of the cases, as I don't know much about gearboxes.

I don't ever dump the clutch on the car anyway so I should be safe.

Thanks again guys.

phreeky · « **Reply #22 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 02:15PM »

wait till you've got 180kwatw (and i mean on a real dyno, not a power-happy dyno that gives bloated readings). if you haven't been in a car with that sort of power i think you under-estimate it, our cars probably have around 100-110kwatw stock, 180kwatw is a huge increase.

i'm well and truly over the drags, circuit is so much more fun, but i'd still like my car to pull an easy low 13s pass when i'm done modding it.

180kwatw @ 7000rpm is fun, but 110kwatw @ 3500rpm-7000rpm while punching it out of a corner is so much more exciting, especially with a half reasonable suspension setup. hence me running 1.1bar on the stock turbo till it dies (it drops to 0.7bar or so at 7000rpm).

anyway let us know the progress of your mods, share the details and the results. and do what i do and take lots of photos.

Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing · « **Reply #23 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 02:25PM »

Cheers mate.

Yer ill wait and see how it goes 1st. But as life is once you have what you wanted you will want more. My friends all ready fast 210rwkw s15 silvia is a prefect example. Apparently 210rwkw isnt fast enough so at present its in the workshop getting setup for 280rwkw. (who am I to complain, I get a t28 for next to nothing)

Ill be sure to take photos.

Craazy · « **Reply #24 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 06:58PM »

i can say this much, after blowing up something in the clutch region, make your selection wisely as it is very costly to be mucking round with gearboxes in the blueys, not only the money wise but the time that gets used to do the work, whether you do it yourself or someone else does it. i am finding out how long it takes to pull all these components out myself at home, im not in a rush though since my car is off the road indefinately. and is now going to be a track car, but somehow registered...

will figure that one out later....

my aim is for 300+kw's constantly, might even stretch for alot more, who knows yet. i can say that i will how some sort of dog box with alot of re engineering of the case to support the power.

of course after reaching the power levels you guys are looking at, you will more than likely have to start looking down the drive train for the next weak link. after all with the clutch good, then the box good, something else is gonna wanna give, so then you will have to look at your driveshafts and lsd's, the prop shaft should be fine, i know mine needs a balance. but between the diffs and your wheels is really the weakest. i have no idea how much they cost as yet but i bet they would be rare as hens teeth.

so does anyone know the break point of the driveshafts in the attesa's??

bluebird · « **Reply #25 on:** Jul 19, 2006, 10:09PM »

Thankyou to IMPAKT. That web site on wiring for the factory harness was spot on.
Also I have to agree with Craaziness. Anywork on the u13 gearbox will require an engine out job.
I lost 5th gear about 4 years ago and 10 hours labour was required in the repair. So I suggest all you guys
try and look after your gear box. Dont go after big horsepower and dont do 6000rpm launches.
I have had no trouble with my box over the last 4 years but I do treat it with respect.
Our cars have great traction as it is, you dont need a mega rpm launch to embarass v8 drivers.
I tend to launch at around 4000rpm with a slight ride of the clutch and once in motion I plant it.
By the time i cross most intersections I am normally in front. Just watch out for wrx drivers who spend
20 grand on their cars as every now and again you could get blown away.
JUST REMEMBER
Its our stealth qualities that make it so much fun.
The eliment of suprise is what catches out most people.