Author Topic: Why don't you do something else?  (Read 13487 times)

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Offline Febrile

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Why don't you do something else?
« on: Sep 8, 2008, 09:11PM »
As a contrast to cruizer's thread over yonder, I would like to ask people why they don't do with their money and time things other than modding cars, etc?  Specifically, what would it take to make you use your time and money for the benefit of more than just yourself?

I ask because I really cannot relate to the passion for cars that many seem to have.  I see fuel prices as being a substantial barrier to future worth of cars, I can't get into something that needs such a vast array of infrastructure to be useful (eg. roads), and I strongly dislike the effect that cars have on geography and society.  Thus I cannot feel good about getting into cars as a hobby, and I would even be inclined to say I feel obliged not to, due to the aforementioned reasons, among other things.

So, why don't you feel obliged to do something else?  Why aren't you guilty about your choice to hobbyise cars?
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 8, 2008, 11:27PM »
I like to eat cheese.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 8, 2008, 11:43PM »
Don't be a tool Chris :P

I do heaps of other things with my money and my time, all of these other things (or almost all) involve my friends or family.

What would it take for me to use my money for the benefit of more than just myself?... I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean use my money that I spend on modifying my cars to open a soup kitchen?  Or are you talking in terms of buying things for a family member who may not have 'something'?  Or am I missing your point?

I'm not guilty about my choice to hobbyise cars because its something I enjoy, some of my friends enjoy (others hate) and I don't think the environmental impact i'm personally having, is any worse than joe-blogs down the street who just bought a new LPG FG Falcon, which during its contruction, consumed a considerable amount of natural resources... where as my 20'ish year old cars consume more fuel, emmit more Co2 and are less efficient but at least i'm not used 800kg of steel, 200kg of plastic... etc etc, every 3 years buying a new car.
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Offline Luke

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 9, 2008, 12:03AM »
I'll just quickly add a sleepy rant, and do a good post later.

joe-blogs down the street who just bought a new LPG FG Falcon

Listen here Joe-Blogs! Just because your POS runs on LPG and is cheaper to run, doesnt really help the environment at all. I know LPG burns a little cleaner, but in the whole scheme of things, your still a [language filter smackdown].
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 9, 2008, 12:05AM »
I'm being serious,

once I had a brain snap, went to woolies and bought 3 different types of cheeses and crackers.

How's your day? fucken cheese and crackers!
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Kranzy

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 9, 2008, 12:44AM »
Listen here Joe-Blogs! Just because your POS runs on LPG and is cheaper to run, doesnt really help the environment at all. I know LPG burns a little cleaner, but in the whole scheme of things, your still a [language filter smackdown].

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Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:52AM »
As a contrast to cruizer's thread over yonder, I would like to ask people why they don't do with their money and time things other than modding cars, etc?  Specifically, what would it take to make you use your time and money for the benefit of more than just yourself?

I ask because I really cannot relate to the passion for cars that many seem to have.  I see fuel prices as being a substantial barrier to future worth of cars, I can't get into something that needs such a vast array of infrastructure to be useful (eg. roads), and I strongly dislike the effect that cars have on geography and society.  Thus I cannot feel good about getting into cars as a hobby, and I would even be inclined to say I feel obliged not to, due to the aforementioned reasons, among other things.

So, why don't you feel obliged to do something else?  Why aren't you guilty about your choice to hobbyise cars?

Good points.
However, why i do not feel guilty about it is because when it makes up 50% of your thoughts for the past 20 years or so, you tend not to look at it from a negative viewpoint. That, or it is a form of mental illness that is yet to be diagnosed.
Also, I don't feel guilty from a financial standpoint as i never went into any form of financial debt over my car/s. I find other ways to finance this as a hobby.

Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #7 on: Sep 9, 2008, 05:47PM »
Also, I don't feel guilty from a financial standpoint as i never went into any form of financial debt over my car/s. I find other ways to finance this as a hobby.

Good point adam. Neither have I... which might have something to do with it all.
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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #8 on: Sep 9, 2008, 08:53PM »
Other hobbies affect the environment:
- stamps - made of paper and you need to cut down forests and kill dolphins to do that
- coins - made of metals, which had to be mined at some terrible rock:metal ratio id say
- computer games - all the stuff the computer is made of, plus the huge amounts of electricity to power that 7 million inch screen and the 2700 motherboards in the box

etc etc

Im also using my money to import a few extra cars on the side, spreading the import love around and while im not giving them away, i feel like ill be helping a few people out.

Maybe i missed the point too :P You're funny Narxysus

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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #9 on: Sep 9, 2008, 09:04PM »
I find other ways to finance this as a hobby.

Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #10 on: Sep 9, 2008, 09:49PM »
ty for the largely intelligent responses, and even the Mainland Colby ones too.

I think something that is probably important to state from the outset is that with regards to this question I am considering cars to be an expensive choice of hobby, relative to others.  I don't know many stamp collectors who spend thousands on their collections.  Then again, I don't know any stamp collectors, so I may be biased.

In addition, there seems to be consensus that we need hobbies, so we can accept that point and move on.

A more specific way to phrase the question might be the following: a dollar given to a poor man is valued more than a dollar given to a rich man.  You could spend/donate your money such that the net social benefit (as valued by the recipients/society as a whole) of each dollar spent this way is greater than the value you could extract personally by spending it on yourself.  (The same goes for time resources.)  For example, $50 spent on adding neons to your car accrues less value to society than spending that $50 on immunisations, for instance.

So, given that this is the case, where do you draw that line (between personal and public benefit), and why do you draw it there, rather than further on the public side?

To address specific comments:

I'm not guilty about my choice to hobbyise cars because its something I enjoy, some of my friends enjoy (others hate) and I don't think the environmental impact i'm personally having, is any worse than joe-blogs down the street who just bought a new LPG FG Falcon, which during its contruction, consumed a considerable amount of natural resources... where as my 20'ish year old cars consume more fuel, emmit more Co2 and are less efficient but at least i'm not used 800kg of steel, 200kg of plastic... etc etc, every 3 years buying a new car.

This is fair, but do you ever consider that the relative difference between you and Joe Bloggs may not be as important as the absolute contributions you are each making?

Other hobbies affect the environment:
- stamps - made of paper and you need to cut down forests and kill dolphins to do that
- coins - made of metals, which had to be mined at some terrible rock:metal ratio id say
- computer games - all the stuff the computer is made of, plus the huge amounts of electricity to power that 7 million inch screen and the 2700 motherboards in the box

etc etc

Again, the question of relative vs absolute comes to my mind, and in addition I suspect that a car requires substantially more resources for its upkeep than stamps do.

Maybe i missed the point too :P You're funny Narxysus

I should point out that I don't live a life so austere that I could be at home in a cardboard box (though they sure are nice!).  I am certain, however, that I am a fair bit more restrained than most, and something that continually vexes me is justifying how I spend my money etc, and I am also not passionate about anything like some of you seem to be with cars (e.g. Mr Cheddar here), so I wondered if others think about these things conciously, and if you don't, I want to know what your responses are when the issue is bought to your attention.
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Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #11 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:03PM »
I actually give more to charity a week than i spend on modifying my car... but then I haven't modified it and have little intention to ;D
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Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #12 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:18PM »
I don't give any money to charity.

I spend that money on junk food.  :P
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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #13 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:44PM »
Today I 'purchased' some R32 wheels. The owner requested I donated the money to the cancer council instead of giving him the cash. I see it as a win-win. I acquire goods and the money goes towards a good cause.

Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #14 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:51PM »
This is fair, but do you ever consider that the relative difference between you and Joe Bloggs may not be as important as the absolute contributions you are each making?

Narx, my brain has been fried this week and I really have little idea of what you mean.

I doubt I would spend MORE on my cars over a 15 year period, versus someone who buys a new car every 3 years (for example).
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Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #15 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:54PM »
Today I 'purchased' some R32 wheels. The owner requested I donated the money to the cancer council instead of giving him the cash. I see it as a win-win. I acquire goods and the money goes towards a good cause.
Ha! Did he want to see a receipt? I'd just take the wheels and keep the cash!  ;D
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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 10, 2008, 12:53AM »
Ha! Did he want to see a receipt? I'd just take the wheels and keep the cash!  ;D

Kinda hope you are joking cos that is really dirty.

Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:29AM »
Narx, my brain has been fried this week and I really have little idea of what you mean.

I doubt I would spend MORE on my cars over a 15 year period, versus someone who buys a new car every 3 years (for example).

I'm saying that what Joe Bloggs does shouldn't matter when you are trying to consider what you should do.  I don't think it is a sturdy justification to say "he does X so it's ok for me to do X-y".  I'm not having at you in particular Budge, bear in mind.  I'm just asking questions  :)
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Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #18 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:36AM »
I disagree.

Everything is relative.  We make comparisons every hour of every day throughout our lives, what I have done is no different.

Its like these bloody Co2 emission reduction targets, 10% by 2020, bla bla bla... these people compare what other people are saying, they compared results and data, then make their own decisions and statements.

Its just like me comparing the posts you make Narx, to the posts someone like Chris makes... complex, probing questions or cheese!?
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #19 on: Sep 10, 2008, 09:18PM »
I killed one person this morning, but it's ok, because my neighbour killed 5 before breakfast!

See?
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Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #20 on: Sep 10, 2008, 09:29PM »
I meant within reason Narx, but I see what your saying.

Actually, i'm not sure how I decide what is 'within reason' either.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 10, 2008, 09:48PM »
This is beyond my level, I seriously don't understand...
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline evlknvl

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:53PM »
Do i feel guilty, NO. I give as much to those around me as I do on the car! (escpecially the missus, LOL). And you can do more than just give money to charity to feel like your doing the right thing (voluntary work, being environmentally aware, community input/help etc).

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 10, 2008, 11:56PM »
...Narx' are you a member of any socialist parties? 'cause you sound a bit like one  :P

I mean... If the Government were to tax every car modification and contribute that money back into the health care/education then we'd be doing something good for society... but they won't. Yay! corporate tax cuts!
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #24 on: Sep 11, 2008, 12:17AM »
Having another HONEST read of this thread,

Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"? I don't understand the point of your post. You might as well say, why do you like to wear the colour yellow? People arn't born the same, have you thought the appreciation, feeling of adrenalin, freedom of fun associated with cars?

appreciation - i build up a house, yeh sure i'm proud of it, I can't exactly take it for a nice summers day cruise can I?
adrenalin - sorry, I can't climb on a rollercoaster at 2am when I feel like it, oh wait, I can't adjust the corners in it to make it more fun either, maybe I can race a few friends with their rollercoasters to see who can finish first?
fun - I can't take my rollercoaster to a bbq picnic with friends on a nice sunday either.

I honestly DO NOT care about polluting (if it was that bad, shit will be going down ASAP), the real problem is our population growing so fucking fast. Cars back in 1970 we're WORSE than nowdays. A race car driven once a week with fuel pumping out it's arse won't harm much compared to that person driving a car in peak hour traffic everyday.

I'm sorry, I don't like analysing art, watching sport religiously, playing cards, drinking wine, pulling weeds from the garden, or whatever. Maybe i'm not old enough yet?

But i'm sure alot of us think along the same lines. Cars are a personality of mine, they extend me beyond my physical appearance.

Sorry if it's on the agressive side, i'm fucking raging at the moment.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #25 on: Sep 11, 2008, 12:46AM »
Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"?

I'll say it. I honestly don't care. Hell, I turn the lights on during the day instead of opening the curtains.

Haven't bought any camshafts, though.  :-\
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Offline Colby

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #26 on: Sep 11, 2008, 03:13PM »
Quote
ty for the largely intelligent responses, and even the Mainland Colby ones too.

Are you calling me a fence sitter?  or maybe you're calling me the epitomy of the everage response?  Either one is fine with me.
(just let me know if I should be offended, or happy, or if you were refering to cheese)

Quote
appreciation - i build up a house, yeh sure i'm proud of it, I can't exactly take it for a nice summers day cruise can I?
adrenalin - sorry, I can't climb on a rollercoaster at 2am when I feel like it, oh wait, I can't adjust the corners in it to make it more fun either, maybe I can race a few friends with their rollercoasters to see who can finish first?
fun - I can't take my rollercoaster to a bbq picnic with friends on a nice sunday either.

I'm a homeless person that lives in a tent which I carry up and down the big dipper hills while i'm heading to my sunday morning AA meeting in the park befor picnic lunch.  I do plenty else   :P

Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #27 on: Sep 11, 2008, 04:01PM »
Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"?

I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources

Well, the last one isn't so true, i do carpool with my wife 4/5 days of the week going to work. However, hypocritically, the injectors that are going in as part of my rather ridiculous turbo setup will empty a full 60L tank of BP's best in just over 15min at full noise. Take that, Bugatti Veyron.  :)
My U12 would probably be a smidge happier without a cat and with a much bigger cam too.

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #28 on: Sep 11, 2008, 08:48PM »
I signed up to another charity today. I'm kinda regretting it. stupid attractive girls selling things to me  >:(
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #29 on: Sep 11, 2008, 09:44PM »
Actually, i'm not sure how I decide what is 'within reason' either.

That is what I find most interesting, I think.  What information do people require to draw the lines they draw, and what information/influences would make them move those lines?  At least you're thinking about it.

...Narx' are you a member of any socialist parties? 'cause you sound a bit like one  :P

I mean... If the Government were to tax every car modification and contribute that money back into the health care/education then we'd be doing something good for society... but they won't. Yay! corporate tax cuts!

Believe it or not I have a Bachelor of Economics which was an almost entirely neoliberal education.  I spend my time now reading books that help me understand that the shit I learned in uni is largely inapplicable or at the very least misguided in the real world.

On your other comment, this would be a good way to force people to spend more on those things (if indirectly), but I am concerned with why people don't do it voluntarily on a larger scale than they do now.  Other than forcing it, how could you get people to divert their resources to things that yield a greater net benefit to society (as I outlined before) than their private spending does?

Are you calling me a fence sitter?  or maybe you're calling me the epitomy of the everage response?  Either one is fine with me.
(just let me know if I should be offended, or happy, or if you were refering to cheese)

I didn't even think about your forum name when I wrote that.  It was meant to be a witty, dairy-based remark.  Sorry!

I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources

What would it take to make you change your behaviour?

Having another HONEST read of this thread,

Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"? I don't understand the point of your post. You might as well say, why do you like to wear the colour yellow? People arn't born the same, have you thought the appreciation, feeling of adrenalin, freedom of fun associated with cars?

appreciation - i build up a house, yeh sure i'm proud of it, I can't exactly take it for a nice summers day cruise can I?
adrenalin - sorry, I can't climb on a rollercoaster at 2am when I feel like it, oh wait, I can't adjust the corners in it to make it more fun either, maybe I can race a few friends with their rollercoasters to see who can finish first?
fun - I can't take my rollercoaster to a bbq picnic with friends on a nice sunday either.

I honestly DO NOT care about polluting (if it was that bad, shit will be going down ASAP), the real problem is our population growing so fucking fast. Cars back in 1970 we're WORSE than nowdays. A race car driven once a week with fuel pumping out it's arse won't harm much compared to that person driving a car in peak hour traffic everyday.

I'm sorry, I don't like analysing art, watching sport religiously, playing cards, drinking wine, pulling weeds from the garden, or whatever. Maybe i'm not old enough yet?

But i'm sure alot of us think along the same lines. Cars are a personality of mine, they extend me beyond my physical appearance.

Sorry if it's on the agressive side, i'm fucking raging at the moment.

This is pretty much exactly the response I'm looking for.  I'm trying my best not to be pretentious or holier-than-thou in this thread.  Sometimes I worry, a lot, about the things other people do that I think they shouldn't do, and I wonder what are the real fundamental differences that make them do those things, whereas I do not?

Your motivations for liking and being passionate about cars are entirely justified, and I would be lying out my arse if I said I disagreed with all of it.  I get the same rush as anybody driving like the Stig.  Where we seem to differ is in our evaluation of the alternatives (and perhaps I don't get quite as jolly as you about boost kicking in etc) - I can't hobbyise cars knowing what I know about the alternative uses of those resources, and the costs that come with doing it, etc etc.  You do not draw the same line, but presumably you have a line - I assume you would be hesitant about the 2am joyrides if you had to sacrifice a baby each time!

So, the question(s) is why is your line different from mine?  Is it just our different personalities?  We have access to roughly the same information about alternatives, but perhaps we put different stock in that information.  What would it take for you to draw your line where I draw mine?  What do you need for that to be a realistic possibility?

For example, if I could be persuaded that cars could be made sustainable (in terms of fuel, infrastructure etc), and if there were no causes out there which were visibly for want of resources (e.g. if there were no homeless people because enough public housing was available), I think I would quite willingly hobbyise cars (as indeed I nearly have done many times over).
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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #30 on: Sep 11, 2008, 09:52PM »
Aaah this thread is doing my head in lol. Its a good topic but it requires so much thinking  ;D

Offline Kranzy

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #31 on: Sep 11, 2008, 09:55PM »
Narxysus what do you do in your spare time? Just out of curiosity?
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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #32 on: Sep 11, 2008, 09:55PM »
Narxysus what do you do in your spare time? Just out of curiosity?

Write threads like this...

Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #33 on: Sep 11, 2008, 10:57PM »
Believe it or not I have a Bachelor of Economics which was an almost entirely neoliberal education.  I spend my time now reading books that help me understand that the shit I learned in uni is largely inapplicable or at the very least misguided in the real world.

Most shit you 'learn' at uni is just that - shit. Its more preparing your brain for a real world job. One mate of mine spent the first 8 months of his new job learning what he actually had to do, he uses very little of his uni degree. Its the same for me, i use bugger all from my undergrad days, its the concepts and development of my analytical mind that has been most useful. And now im supposed to be turning that up another level with post grad study.

You seem to have a very 'communist' approach to things. While it works well in theory, not so good in practice. I met a guy from [language filter smackdown]ia or another similar country while in Mex earlier in the year, the job he had been 'given' by the govt was plant breeder and he was receiving some training at the same organisation i was doing my research at. Chatting to him about the conditions there, there are massive yield improvements to be made, fairly quickly. But he hated his job, had no interest in it and will make bugger all improvement, despite the fact a monkey could make improvements (as a guide, avg yields in his area were around 1.5t, i estimated they could be closer to 7 or 8 tons given rainfall temps etc)

You know why? cos its all about number one, while the greater good plays a tiny part in peoples thoughts, its all about yours truely in reality. Human nature, its shit (yes the boy band too)

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #34 on: Sep 11, 2008, 10:58PM »
Quote
So, the question(s) is why is your line different from mine?  Is it just our different personalities?

Seriously, that's a stupid question.

Like I said before, it's like trying to work out why people like to wear the colour yellow. It's difference! Even animals don't react the same to certain activities. What's the point in trying to find the answer out anyway? Your curiosity amazes me. If only a company could channel your observation and enthusiasm into designing products... they'd love you.

If you can't understand why we are different, ask yourself why I have 12" penisaurus and you have a 6" cawk.  :D  :P
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2008, 10:59PM by chr1S »
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline eurisko

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #35 on: Sep 12, 2008, 12:21AM »
Narxy, you crack me up substantially. lol

You state something that I found overwhelmingly funny... that a poor man values one dollar more than a rich man... How much more wrong could you be? Have you really been living under a rock (or textbook for that matter) all of your life?

Do you think the rich stay rich because they DONT value money more than the poor? or do the poor value money so much they spend it on non-essential things like drugs, alcohol and self-gratification? That goes for the middle class too -> the stuggling aussie family, ie the good old "battler".

Pfft.

Regardless, back to your question. Its simple, and has been simplified by chris's barbaric answer a while back.

Basic human drive is to do what feels good. Self preservation, survival, replication, pleasure.

What is the dream almost everyone in this society is raised to believe?

- Goto school, get a job, get a wife, buy a house, raise a family and work till you die.

Perhaps not in that particular order, but you get the jist. The jist is everyone in this country believes they DESERVE to have everything they dream of, regardless of their education, wealth, position in society and usefullness to their community.
So these people go out, with little to no education, work for a few years.... earn enough to take out a home loan... a wife and two children... a car or two... holiday every year up the coast. Why? Beause they earned it with hard work... dedication etc.

What makes you think, that these people... who are hopelessly dependent on the system that supports them... where the cost of fuel is enough to strangle their tight budgets - 4c a litre makes the difference between making the car payment... what makes you think that something like "climate change" is going to make them change the way they have been raised their whole life?

Waste not - want not?

First it was global warming - but its not getting hotter anymore... now lets call it climate change (cause we dont know what it actually is going to do) - now its global economic instability - carbon emmissions trading - selling "points" that are traded on the stock market - regulated by a fanstical and mystical "independant" body.

What the fuck am I ranting on about??

NOTHING.

Because no-one gives a fuck... because no matter what we do... what we say... who we blame.... NOTHING will change what happens.

What do you think you can tell Joe Bloggs? Stop modifying your car? Buy a Toyota Prius? Its cheaper to run, save the environment.

He'll look at you and say -


"Im a Holden Man"


I modify my car because I can. I enjoy learning and the challenge of trying new things.
Joe Bloggs does it for his own reasons. Show his mate what he has. Take his car to meets, discuss with buddies over a few beers how many seconds the 1/4 it does. What Jimmy from Robs Welding Supplies has in his garage... shes a real beauty too.

These people don't care because it doesnt affect them. Hell, even their families.... when they turn 18, out the door. Isnt that the saying?

/end rant

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Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #36 on: Sep 12, 2008, 10:02AM »
What would it take to make you change your behaviour?

I was exaggerating just a little. Regarding pollution / wasting resources, i don't drive my U12 much anymore to the daily grind unless necessary; the car that my wife and i drive during the week averages about 6.8L/100km and has all the latest gizmos and gadgets to reduce emissions and fuel consumption. So, that being said, i have changed my/our behaviour in that respect since we are not using more fuel then absolutely necessary. And it's one less car on the road too.
I wasn't kidding about the injectors however, although i would prefer to run the U12 on methanol which would be much cleaner.

- Goto school, get a job, get a wife, buy a house, raise a family and work till you die.

Sounds so mundane when you put it like that! But i guess it's the tried and tested method of least resistance to getting what you want out of life.

Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #37 on: Sep 12, 2008, 08:43PM »
eurisko for Prime Minister! Can noss make him Deputy-God or something?
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #38 on: Sep 12, 2008, 08:50PM »
LOL @ eddy for PM
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #39 on: Sep 13, 2008, 09:56PM »
Narxy, you crack me up substantially. lol

You state something that I found overwhelmingly funny... that a poor man values one dollar more than a rich man... How much more wrong could you be? Have you really been living under a rock (or textbook for that matter) all of your life?


/end rant

I must be under the same rock. As a generalisation: If you throw a poor man a dollar he's gonna be more happy than if you throw a rich man a dollar.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #40 on: Sep 13, 2008, 10:12PM »
I must be under the same rock. As a generalisation: If you throw a poor man a dollar he's gonna be more happy than if you throw a rich man a dollar.

Thankyou Smiley, this is precisely what I meant - the rich man is more likely to give the poor man the dollar than the other way around.

However, you do make a good point in the rest of your post ed, and I'm thinking about my response.
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Offline Habibosaurus

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #41 on: Sep 13, 2008, 10:39PM »
Lets all take a breath... watch this clip for some light hearted funsy and than come back with some witty remarks eh...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkObQXh4d3s&feature=user


 ;)
Ill fight you. May even throw a bar of soap your way. Maybe a few wax strips and some clip on brembo brake calipers for your fooly sic civic.

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #42 on: Sep 13, 2008, 10:44PM »
I must be under the same rock. As a generalisation: If you throw a poor man a dollar he's gonna be more happy than if you throw a rich man a dollar.

Absolutely. He will be happy that he can now scrounge up enough coin to buy himself more booze/drugs or whatever immediate pleasure he requires at the time.

And im not putting myself of a pedestle. Homeless are usually the unfortunate who have mental issues and fall through the cracks of the system. But this disussion isnt about the homeless. :P

Again, my point stated. A rich man will take that dollar, and value it more because he can utilise it to become more wealthy. Whereas a poor (middle/low income) will utilise that same dollar to spend on non-value generating expenses.

Dont confuse the terms value and worth and mix them up with emotion. We need to clearly define what we are talking about - either emotional satisfaction, or monetary value.

Thankyou Smiley, this is precisely what I meant - the rich man is more likely to give the poor man the dollar than the other way around.

How many rich men have you met that have given you any money, without any resitution?

Now think about how many friends of yours have lent you money without charging any interest?


Rethink your last statement a little... why would a poor man give a rich man a dollar in any case?

Hmmmm


Wait. What were we talking about again? :P

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Offline eurisko

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #43 on: Sep 13, 2008, 10:58PM »

The Nissubishda will live....

Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #44 on: Sep 14, 2008, 12:07AM »
Rethink your last statement a little... why would a poor man give a rich man a dollar in any case?

He wouldn't, for pretty much exactly the reason behind the proposed scenario, and the reason why I said it.
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Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #45 on: Sep 14, 2008, 07:14PM »
Absolutely. He will be happy that he can now scrounge up enough coin to buy himself more booze/drugs or whatever immediate pleasure he requires at the time.

And im not putting myself of a pedestle. Homeless are usually the unfortunate who have mental issues and fall through the cracks of the system. But this disussion isnt about the homeless. :P

Again, my point stated. A rich man will take that dollar, and value it more because he can utilise it to become more wealthy. Whereas a poor (middle/low income) will utilise that same dollar to spend on non-value generating expenses.

Dont confuse the terms value and worth and mix them up with emotion. We need to clearly define what we are talking about - either emotional satisfaction, or monetary value.

How many rich men have you met that have given you any money, without any resitution?

Now think about how many friends of yours have lent you money without charging any interest?


Rethink your last statement a little... why would a poor man give a rich man a dollar in any case?

Hmmmm


Wait. What were we talking about again? :P

ummm I think you are confused with our point dude :P

poor people aren't necessarily homeless, and rich people aren't necessarily Jewish money misers.

maybe if I re-word it:

A Poor person is going to be more upset if they lose $10 than if a rich man loses $10
 

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Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #46 on: Sep 14, 2008, 08:22PM »
A Poor person is going to be more upset if they lose $10 than if a rich man loses $10

Rich man didn't get where he is by not caring about losing money, no matter how much.
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Offline evlknvl

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #47 on: Sep 14, 2008, 09:41PM »
Lets have an experiment. I'm poor, someone send me ten bucks and when I get it i'll let you know how grateful I am. MUHAHAHAHA Be even more gratefule if it's fifty. LOL

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #48 on: Sep 14, 2008, 11:44PM »
Rich man didn't get where he is by not caring about losing money, no matter how much.
You are missing the point completely.



A Poor person is going to be more upset if they lose $10 than if a rich man loses $10
 



The point is, if a rich man loses $10 he's like damn, I could have used that to invest.

a poor man loses $10... oh fuck it looks like I'm not having dinner tonight.

It's called perspective. Learn to use it.

Oh and look up that Bill Gates guy and see how money he's put into health and education. Technically he's losing the money 'cause he's getting no personal gain out of it except for the satisfaciton of knowing he's doing something to better the world.

This has gotten so far off topic.


honest question here. who of you actually regularly donates to charities?

Eurisko you have the opinion that the homeless have mental issues/disabilities... why not, instead of handing the bum $2 of spare change, give that $2 to a drop in centre or a charity like the salvos or someone that helps the homeless.

I am aware the whole point of a hobby is doing something you enjoy. some Hobbies are more expensive than others and I have absolutely no right (or want) to tell you guys you are wrong for pursuing your passion. I just wonder how many of you follow it greedily is all... you know, without thought of others... maybe throw some money to a commodore owner so he can get a decent car.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #49 on: Sep 15, 2008, 01:45AM »
Quote
you know, without thought of others... maybe throw some money to a commodore owner so he can get a decent car.

What for? He can work his arse off like we did and buy a decent car himself. What is this, I feel sorry for everyone, here have 5k? PFFT.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #50 on: Sep 15, 2008, 09:03AM »
I can has teh $5k?  :D

Offline noss

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #51 on: Sep 15, 2008, 12:15PM »
you guys are all retarted. charities are not hobbies, they're scams. in saying that, i donate money every month to the wilderness society, i get paid quite well and as far as i'm concerned i cant really afford it, but i still do it.. so suck my left wang.. yes.. i have 2 wangs.

but you guys need to get out more if you're suggesting a hobby should be replaced by making donations to charity. people without hobbies commit suicide, its that simple* i cant stand folk that look down on others because they dont contribute to society by donating to some mob that might help children in africa or saving spider monkeys that are suffering from the aids epidemic, as far as i'm concerned half these so called 'charities' have a lot of 'volunteers' that most likely have a cocaine habit to support (hence high 'administration' costs).

i help people out in my own way.. another one of my hobbies other than cars is computers, so i've setup countless computers for friends and relatives and have asked nothing in return.. sure computers wont save the world and they wont save a starving african kid, but they're helping someone out and i know that my help is being appreciated. instead of sitting on your asses bitching about who donates to what and who is killing the earth cause others enjoy cars, fucking do something useful.

also, the whole suggestion of people here, on antrx, selfishly indulging in their love of cars is clearly stupid in the first place.. if they indulged in cars selfishly, they wouldnt own a bloody pintara would they?


to sum up my post.. do something good for someone.. charities are not the be all and end all of goodness.. every little bit, no matter what it is, helps someone in some way.

oh and remember my left wang? suck it.


*people without hobbies : suicide ratio is not founded with any common sense or hard facts but most likely related as far as i'm concerned

also please note this post is purely for humour value, not argument.
« Last Edit: Sep 15, 2008, 01:14PM by noss »

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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #52 on: Sep 15, 2008, 01:00PM »
I still don't get what this is all about  ???

Is this argument suggesting by having a hobby we are being selfish? Well I'm sure I share the love when little kids that love cars smile when I boost it past them  :) I don't necessarily donate much money to charity but have been working my ass off for 2 months to raise money and train for the Heartkids SA charity.

I'm sure I've spent more time (my most valuable asset) training, talking to mates about the charity, raising awareness and organising the run than working on my car. Now saying that, after all the effort I'm putting in my little brother has had his operation cancelled for the 4th time in a row. And you know what? I'm sure most of the money we've raised will go towards the pompus women that runs the charity and gets paid for it. So essentially I'm working to make her money, make sense? No.

The complicating factor here is everyone has different priorities in life. I personally don't see the point of working my ass off and then donating the majority of my income to charity. See osmeone like Chr1s would see cars as a high priority because it combines both work and a hobby and he derives an income from it. Myself, I do it because its a hobby. Theres not alot else I enjoy doing.

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #53 on: Sep 15, 2008, 10:24PM »
hehehe I consider this thread officially trolled

I did just spend another 1.5k on new tyres  ;)


ahhh sorry guys but i like to stir.
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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #54 on: Sep 15, 2008, 11:11PM »
also, the whole suggestion of people here, on antrx, selfishly indulging in their love of cars is clearly stupid in the first place.. if they indulged in cars selfishly, they wouldnt own a bloody pintara would they?


ROFL BROTHEL!

I dont even remember what this thread is about now


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Offline thumbtack

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #55 on: Sep 15, 2008, 11:18PM »
What would it take to make you change your behaviour?

personally, i dont see that he should. obviously there are limits and basic common sense, but deadset, is he really making that much of an impact?

oh and remember my left wang? suck it.

cherp :P
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Offline eurisko

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #56 on: Sep 15, 2008, 11:31PM »
ROFL BROTHEL!

I dont even remember what this thread is about now


I DO! =)

http://www.youtube.com/v/zoKlmQbNoi4&hl=en&fs=1

Oh and yeah yeah yeah money waste, cars waste, breathing waste.

Noss i didnt know you had 2 wangs??  :-\

People spend their money however they feel is most enjoyable. My hobbies include - Getting drunk, Going out to get drunk, Drinking, Buying alcohol, having untold of amounts of sex with random women....whilst intoxicated... etc etc etc.

Now a homosexual would find the last point completely useless, and selfish, because he cant get any of my wang....

But its all a matter of perspective right?  8)

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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #57 on: Sep 15, 2008, 11:45PM »
LOL that spartan pic is classic!
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #58 on: Sep 16, 2008, 12:14AM »
Noss i didnt know you had 2 wangs??  :-\

Me either. Did one of them fall off or something?
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Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #59 on: Sep 16, 2008, 09:06AM »
I'm being environmentally responsible this weekend and buying an energy efficient 50" plasma courtesy of the ATO.

That and some poor bastard cows are going to sacrifice themselves so my ass is comfy in front of said plasma.

Offline noss

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #60 on: Sep 16, 2008, 09:31AM »
That and some poor bastard cows are going to sacrifice themselves so my ass is comfy in front of said plasma.

i see that as being environmentally responsible.. less wastage.. you see, a lot of people eat meat, now just in case someone doesnt understand, when i say a lot, i mean everyone that isnt vegetarian, vegan or otherwise.. just in case you missed that there are a lot of people that eat meat. anyway, all these people eating meat, well the meat comes from animals.. one of those animals.. the dog.. but one of the more popular animals among meat eating folk is the cow.. when you take a cows meat out, its clothes are left over, hanging reasonably lifeless over a rickety skeleton, or they're on someone's bedroom floor.. but because someone ate the meat, there is no meat to put back in the cows clothes.. so some smart cookie a long long time ago came up with the idea of wearing cow clothes.. which ended up like this:



and



well, the fashion never really took off, plus people started eating babies cause they thought they were cows.. eating babies isnt really accepted within general society, so they had to think of something else to do, cause frankly, there was quite an overload of cow clothes.

so another smart cookie decided to turn the cows, sheep, horses, monkeys and babies of the world into all sorts of fun things like couches, car seats, trenchcoats, jackets, hot pants, g-strings, whips.. you get the idea.. so no more wastage..


in summary, if that made no sense, remember the 3 r's.. re-use, reduce, recycle.. buy a leather couch and save the planet!
« Last Edit: Sep 16, 2008, 09:32AM by noss »

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Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #61 on: Sep 16, 2008, 12:09PM »
i like lamp


 :D

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #62 on: Sep 16, 2008, 01:34PM »
Noss just said what i was about to say...

Abbatoirs don't waste much at all.
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Offline evlknvl

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #63 on: Sep 16, 2008, 07:17PM »
LMAO, how the f#*k you come up with these posts is beyond me Noss! If there was anyone i'd like to get on the grog with it'd have to be you, hahaha. Think i'd spend more time pissing myself than actually on the piss!

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #64 on: Sep 16, 2008, 09:04PM »
anyone seen that add on SBS that is like DON'T DRIVE, USE LESS ELECTRICITY AND DON'T EAT MEAT 'CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING?

it makes me laugh sometimes. but then I'm prone to laughing for no reason at all.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #65 on: Sep 16, 2008, 09:44PM »
I still don't get what this is all about  ???

Most of us lead comfortable lives, and we aren't really for want of anything in our immediate future or surroundings.  There are others around the world who are, and there are, I believe, problems around the world which exist now and will exist in the future, but a great majority of those problems do not, and probably will not affect any of us in a directly tangible way.  As a consequence, to solve these problems and help improve the lot of others, people will need to act in a manner not conducive to their direct individual benefit. 

This is not how society is presently structured, and that is largely because of tradition and cultural norms.  Ours is one way of living, but it is not the only way, nor is it necessarily the best way, and I would wager it is not the best way to ensure our development as a species.  Thus, my task is to get a stronger idea of what exactly it is that determines how we act as we do, and how much of it is malleable, and how individuals might be persuaded to voluntarily direct their energies and ideas away from an individual focus to a species focus when they a) have no biological imperative to do so and b) have a cultural imperative not to do so.

So ed, to respond to your claim:

The jist is everyone in this country believes they DESERVE to have everything they dream of, regardless of their education, wealth, position in society and usefullness to their community.
So these people go out, with little to no education, work for a few years.... earn enough to take out a home loan... a wife and two children... a car or two... holiday every year up the coast. Why? Beause they earned it with hard work... dedication etc.

What makes you think, that these people... who are hopelessly dependent on the system that supports them... where the cost of fuel is enough to strangle their tight budgets - 4c a litre makes the difference between making the car payment... what makes you think that something like "climate change" is going to make them change the way they have been raised their whole life?

I am trying to figure out just that.  Using your examples, I want to know how to change peoples dreams, and how to alter the impact of the way they have been raised.  How can we make people less dependent on the system of which they comprise but a small part?

I am a risk averse person, and I think others should be as well, because it leaves the most doors open for the future.  I want to change how others perceive the world and their role in it.  I am asking you people about how you draw your lines and what motivates your actions and what shapes your understandings so that I can add that information to what I know about this, so I am better equipped to answer the questions I want to answer.

So I'm not saying people are selfish for having their hobbies, I'm asking people to consider the use of their resources, and their perceptions of the goals of that resource use.

Narxysus what do you do in your spare time? Just out of curiosity?

Read books and browse the web and write threads like this.
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Offline slim

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #66 on: Sep 16, 2008, 09:53PM »
I'm being environmentally responsible this weekend and buying an energy efficient 50" plasma courtesy of the ATO.

That and some poor bastard cows are going to sacrifice themselves so my ass is comfy in front of said plasma.

Well killing those cows is going to reduce methane emissions hence slowing global warming done.
Well done i congratulate you on being half enviromental, LCD's are more efficient then plasmas.
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Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #67 on: Sep 17, 2008, 09:05AM »
hehehe, hence the italics around "energy efficient"  :D

Offline slim

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #68 on: Sep 18, 2008, 07:10AM »
Quote
Re: Why don't you do something else?

Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana, ecstasy and alcohol.
Cocaine.

You take your pick of those and get to us
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