Author Topic: another popping issue...  (Read 4557 times)

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Offline nxka24de

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another popping issue...
« on: May 1, 2006, 01:53PM »
i've read the other threads on popping noises but they seem to be slightly different so here's my problem: i get a fairly loud pop through my front splits (jl audio) and sub (audiobahn) all connected to the same cadence 4-channel whenever i turn the key past accessories to turn the ignition on and off... if i turn the volume all the way down or the gain on the amp down it seems to soften the pop...

someone has suggested bad grounding so i've changed the ground over but still the same.

what say y'all?

Offline chr1S

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #1 on: May 1, 2006, 03:11PM »
How have you grounded them ?

Are you running your power cables near your speaker cables ?

Try getting a noise filter (It might help).
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #2 on: May 1, 2006, 04:06PM »
Is it just one pop when you turn the key?

If it is then i say that running power cables near speaker cables wont be the problem unless you hear an alternator whine through your speakers while the car is going.

The only thing that changes when you turn the key is the remote wire sends a signal down to turn the amps on so the power cables wont be the problem. I know with some amps can pop on start up and shut down depending on the components used to make the amps.

I would think that the pop is the amp turning on and off. The reason you are hearing it differently when the gain/volumn is down will be due to the power its putting out.

Does the pop change if the gain is where it normally is and the volume is down? My guess would be no, but test anyway.

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Offline nxka24de

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #3 on: May 1, 2006, 05:23PM »
grounded with 4-gauge directly to a hole in the chassis that i drilled with all the paint scratched off all the way around. i have tried to keep the power and speaker lines/RCAs on opposite sides of the car but couldn't help a couple of single point crosses.

the pop actually is softer with the volume down but gain at normal.. don't know why that is either...

i do get a very slight alternator whine so will put in a noise filter... just wondering if there was a solution to the popping so i could fix it at the same time..

Offline chr1S

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #4 on: May 1, 2006, 06:00PM »
Well, the ground sounds good...

All i can think of is a shit amp.
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Offline nxka24de

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #5 on: May 1, 2006, 06:08PM »
haha.. fair enough. i've got the fx series cadence 4 channel... the range they replaced the q series with.

anyone heard of this prob with those amps in the past?

Offline Jono

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #6 on: May 1, 2006, 08:50PM »
Most amps have fairly good circuits to cancel out turn-on and turn-off popping. What kind of head unit do you have?

The alternator noise could be any number of things, sounds like you have a good ground at the amp. Have you grounded your HU to the factory harness?
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Offline rathies

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #7 on: May 1, 2006, 08:53PM »
does the amp pop when you turn the head unit on and off with the ingition already switched to acc or engine running?
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Offline nxka24de

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #8 on: May 2, 2006, 10:15AM »
the HU is grounded directly to the chassis as well, wound around a washer bolted into a hole drilled into one of the support bars behind the centre console...

the HU is a generic no-name dvd player from china... haha, do you think this contributes to the noise issues? i've wired the remote wire direct to acc in case the HU was sending too much voltage through n it seems to have helped a little but pop is still there...

i'm not sure the HU turns off with the engine running cos the acc power is on... i havent had much time to play with the HU itself but i don't think it has a power switch.. just turns on and off with acc power.

Offline Bullion

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #9 on: May 2, 2006, 12:45PM »
Just sounds like an on/off pop to me. It won't damage your speakers or anything so don't be too worried. Some amps dont have a delay to stop this, even some big $$$ amps do it. If you have exhausted all avenues with grounding etc, which it seems you have, there may be nothing you can do about it.

Having power cables next to speaker wires won't do anything...
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #10 on: May 2, 2006, 01:11PM »
Having power cables next to speaker cables in this senario wont make any differece, but alternator whine can be heard if you have it set up with the wires together.
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Offline Sticky

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #11 on: May 2, 2006, 02:27PM »
id concur with kranzy, its just the amp turning on and off, most amps do it, just at varing levels

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Offline nxka24de

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #12 on: May 2, 2006, 02:29PM »
alright... i'm gonna put in a noise filter to hopefully remove the slight alternator whine... if the pop ain't gon go away then so be it.

just one more question guys, are noise filters noise filters? are there good n bad or will the supercheap one do fine?

thnx 4 the help...

Offline chr1S

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #13 on: May 2, 2006, 07:11PM »
yes it will be fine, it's just a capacitor.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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Offline Jono

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #14 on: May 2, 2006, 10:39PM »
About your engine 'whine':

Running speaker cables next to power cables won't induce noise into the system, but running RCAs next to the power cable can. The quality of the head unit can also affect the amount of noise in the system.

A noise filter may help, as may a ground loop isolator. And they aren't just capacitors, they're a small circuit of capacitors and inductors. Most noise filters are fairly rough and ready items because anyone who's prepared to spend the money to get a good one doesn't really need them. I know it's harsh, but you can't polish a turd.

EDIT: nxka24de, you don't need to understand anything posted after this. ;)
« Last Edit: May 3, 2006, 12:15AM by Jono »
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Offline chr1S

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #15 on: May 2, 2006, 10:45PM »
ok jono. i was right and u know i am.. the kid doesn't need to know if it's a series of them.. if u really want to get nitty gritty about it, lets talk about inductance in the circuit ey ?, or maybe what type of capacitors it has, or even the farad rating, or how many coils the inductor has !, who cares ?!

capacitors are known for filtering as one of their main uses as well as others.


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« Last Edit: May 2, 2006, 10:48PM by chr1S »
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Jono

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #16 on: May 2, 2006, 11:02PM »
You want to talk electrics/electronics? Fire away... I did a year of Microelectronic Engineering at uni where that kind of stuff was rammed down our throats. Yes capacitors are good for filtering as are inductors, which is why BOTH of them are found in noise filters. Did you know inductance isn't just measured by the number of turns on the former? The cross-sectional area of the former, diameter of the wire, material the former is made of, length of the coil and shape of the former all have an effect on the inductance. If I was feeling energetic I could draw up a circuit for a noise suppressor but it'd be more trouble than it's worth to construct it because they can be bought so cheaply.

Noise filters are effectively a low-pass filter.

Not meaning to have a go at you or offend you but you came across as thinking you know more than you do.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #17 on: May 2, 2006, 11:14PM »
Yes Jono, the kid obviously doesn't know what the f^&$ you are talking about, so i found the simplest way to explain it and call it a capacitor.

For my age Jono, I think i know a decent amount of electronics considering i havn't done anything on it at school..you don't need to rain on my parade like that saying im wrong just for helping the guy abit better.

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length of the coil and shape of the former all have an effect on the inductance.

umm resistivity ? or maybe a mixture of conductivity ..
« Last Edit: May 2, 2006, 11:37PM by chr1S »
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Sticky

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #18 on: May 2, 2006, 11:37PM »
keep it on topic fellas, this isnt an arguement

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Offline chr1S

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #19 on: May 2, 2006, 11:37PM »
meh, im not looking for an argument.. just sharing what's on my mind at the moment..
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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Offline rathies

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #20 on: May 2, 2006, 11:51PM »
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Offline Jono

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #21 on: May 3, 2006, 12:13AM »
Shut up you two... it is still on topic :P


Chr1S, yes I agree with you that you do know a lot about electronics especially considering you haven't been formally taught.

I know nxka24de probably wouldn't know what I'm talking about but I didn't want him to go away with the impression that he could go to Jaycar or DSE and buy any old capacitor and expect it to solve all his problems.

And everything to do with the inductance of inductors has to do with magnetic fields. Resistance doesn't have anything to do with inductors.
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Offline Jono

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #22 on: May 3, 2006, 12:16AM »
I even edited a previous post so nxka24de knows where to stop reading if he values his insanity :P
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Offline Bullion

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #23 on: May 3, 2006, 10:31AM »
Having power cables next to speaker cables in this senario wont make any differece, but alternator whine can be heard if you have it set up with the wires together.


No... you can put speaker wires wherever you want...

As Jono said, you can put RCA's next to the power cables and then you may have problems with whine, but speakers won't do anything...
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #24 on: May 3, 2006, 10:55AM »
Yeah i know this...I fucked up.

For some reason i was thinking RCA but wrote speaker.

Sorry for the confussion.
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Offline Rake

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #25 on: May 3, 2006, 11:08AM »
I'm guessing speaker wires can go next to power cabling without issue as they're already carrying a decent amount of electricity on their own, whereas RCA's are more likely to get interferance as they carry low amounts of electricity? (That being the audio signal)


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« Last Edit: May 3, 2006, 11:10AM by Rake »

Offline Kranzy

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #26 on: May 3, 2006, 11:10AM »
yeah i know its the RCA that are effected by it. I realised now after reading over my posts that i made the mistake of saying speaker cables and not RCA cables.
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Offline nxka24de

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #27 on: May 3, 2006, 11:33AM »
ok, think i've got enoough to go on so i'll have another check through the system this wkend.

i'll keep y'all up to date on problems relating to my dodgy installation skills as they arise  ;D

thnx heaps guys.

Offline Jono

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Re: another popping issue...
« Reply #28 on: May 3, 2006, 06:59PM »
I'm guessing speaker wires can go next to power cabling without issue as they're already carrying a decent amount of electricity on their own, whereas RCA's are more likely to get interferance as they carry low amounts of electricity? (That being the audio signal)

Yep, that's basically what happens. Speaker cables carry a high voltage signal whereas RCAs carry a low voltage signal. The varying current through the power cables of a system can induce noise (unwanted alternating current) into any wires near it. This induced noise is a very low voltage signal. You don't notice it on the speaker cables because it's a very small voltage compared to the much higher voltage signal the speaker cables are carrying, but with the RCAs you notice it alot more because the low-voltage induced noise makes a lot more difference to the low-voltage signal the RCAs are carrying. Confused yet? :P

Another way of explaining it is the signal in RCAs is amplified, and any noise in the RCAs is also amplified. Whereas the signal in speaker wires is already amplified, and any noise that's induced into those speaker wires is 'drowned out' by the much louder signal.
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