Author Topic: Why don't you do something else?  (Read 13486 times)

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Offline Febrile

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Why don't you do something else?
« on: Sep 8, 2008, 09:11PM »
As a contrast to cruizer's thread over yonder, I would like to ask people why they don't do with their money and time things other than modding cars, etc?  Specifically, what would it take to make you use your time and money for the benefit of more than just yourself?

I ask because I really cannot relate to the passion for cars that many seem to have.  I see fuel prices as being a substantial barrier to future worth of cars, I can't get into something that needs such a vast array of infrastructure to be useful (eg. roads), and I strongly dislike the effect that cars have on geography and society.  Thus I cannot feel good about getting into cars as a hobby, and I would even be inclined to say I feel obliged not to, due to the aforementioned reasons, among other things.

So, why don't you feel obliged to do something else?  Why aren't you guilty about your choice to hobbyise cars?
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 8, 2008, 11:27PM »
I like to eat cheese.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 8, 2008, 11:43PM »
Don't be a tool Chris :P

I do heaps of other things with my money and my time, all of these other things (or almost all) involve my friends or family.

What would it take for me to use my money for the benefit of more than just myself?... I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean use my money that I spend on modifying my cars to open a soup kitchen?  Or are you talking in terms of buying things for a family member who may not have 'something'?  Or am I missing your point?

I'm not guilty about my choice to hobbyise cars because its something I enjoy, some of my friends enjoy (others hate) and I don't think the environmental impact i'm personally having, is any worse than joe-blogs down the street who just bought a new LPG FG Falcon, which during its contruction, consumed a considerable amount of natural resources... where as my 20'ish year old cars consume more fuel, emmit more Co2 and are less efficient but at least i'm not used 800kg of steel, 200kg of plastic... etc etc, every 3 years buying a new car.
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Offline Luke

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 9, 2008, 12:03AM »
I'll just quickly add a sleepy rant, and do a good post later.

joe-blogs down the street who just bought a new LPG FG Falcon

Listen here Joe-Blogs! Just because your POS runs on LPG and is cheaper to run, doesnt really help the environment at all. I know LPG burns a little cleaner, but in the whole scheme of things, your still a [language filter smackdown].
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 9, 2008, 12:05AM »
I'm being serious,

once I had a brain snap, went to woolies and bought 3 different types of cheeses and crackers.

How's your day? fucken cheese and crackers!
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Kranzy

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 9, 2008, 12:44AM »
Listen here Joe-Blogs! Just because your POS runs on LPG and is cheaper to run, doesnt really help the environment at all. I know LPG burns a little cleaner, but in the whole scheme of things, your still a [language filter smackdown].

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Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:52AM »
As a contrast to cruizer's thread over yonder, I would like to ask people why they don't do with their money and time things other than modding cars, etc?  Specifically, what would it take to make you use your time and money for the benefit of more than just yourself?

I ask because I really cannot relate to the passion for cars that many seem to have.  I see fuel prices as being a substantial barrier to future worth of cars, I can't get into something that needs such a vast array of infrastructure to be useful (eg. roads), and I strongly dislike the effect that cars have on geography and society.  Thus I cannot feel good about getting into cars as a hobby, and I would even be inclined to say I feel obliged not to, due to the aforementioned reasons, among other things.

So, why don't you feel obliged to do something else?  Why aren't you guilty about your choice to hobbyise cars?

Good points.
However, why i do not feel guilty about it is because when it makes up 50% of your thoughts for the past 20 years or so, you tend not to look at it from a negative viewpoint. That, or it is a form of mental illness that is yet to be diagnosed.
Also, I don't feel guilty from a financial standpoint as i never went into any form of financial debt over my car/s. I find other ways to finance this as a hobby.

Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #7 on: Sep 9, 2008, 05:47PM »
Also, I don't feel guilty from a financial standpoint as i never went into any form of financial debt over my car/s. I find other ways to finance this as a hobby.

Good point adam. Neither have I... which might have something to do with it all.
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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #8 on: Sep 9, 2008, 08:53PM »
Other hobbies affect the environment:
- stamps - made of paper and you need to cut down forests and kill dolphins to do that
- coins - made of metals, which had to be mined at some terrible rock:metal ratio id say
- computer games - all the stuff the computer is made of, plus the huge amounts of electricity to power that 7 million inch screen and the 2700 motherboards in the box

etc etc

Im also using my money to import a few extra cars on the side, spreading the import love around and while im not giving them away, i feel like ill be helping a few people out.

Maybe i missed the point too :P You're funny Narxysus

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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #9 on: Sep 9, 2008, 09:04PM »
I find other ways to finance this as a hobby.

Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #10 on: Sep 9, 2008, 09:49PM »
ty for the largely intelligent responses, and even the Mainland Colby ones too.

I think something that is probably important to state from the outset is that with regards to this question I am considering cars to be an expensive choice of hobby, relative to others.  I don't know many stamp collectors who spend thousands on their collections.  Then again, I don't know any stamp collectors, so I may be biased.

In addition, there seems to be consensus that we need hobbies, so we can accept that point and move on.

A more specific way to phrase the question might be the following: a dollar given to a poor man is valued more than a dollar given to a rich man.  You could spend/donate your money such that the net social benefit (as valued by the recipients/society as a whole) of each dollar spent this way is greater than the value you could extract personally by spending it on yourself.  (The same goes for time resources.)  For example, $50 spent on adding neons to your car accrues less value to society than spending that $50 on immunisations, for instance.

So, given that this is the case, where do you draw that line (between personal and public benefit), and why do you draw it there, rather than further on the public side?

To address specific comments:

I'm not guilty about my choice to hobbyise cars because its something I enjoy, some of my friends enjoy (others hate) and I don't think the environmental impact i'm personally having, is any worse than joe-blogs down the street who just bought a new LPG FG Falcon, which during its contruction, consumed a considerable amount of natural resources... where as my 20'ish year old cars consume more fuel, emmit more Co2 and are less efficient but at least i'm not used 800kg of steel, 200kg of plastic... etc etc, every 3 years buying a new car.

This is fair, but do you ever consider that the relative difference between you and Joe Bloggs may not be as important as the absolute contributions you are each making?

Other hobbies affect the environment:
- stamps - made of paper and you need to cut down forests and kill dolphins to do that
- coins - made of metals, which had to be mined at some terrible rock:metal ratio id say
- computer games - all the stuff the computer is made of, plus the huge amounts of electricity to power that 7 million inch screen and the 2700 motherboards in the box

etc etc

Again, the question of relative vs absolute comes to my mind, and in addition I suspect that a car requires substantially more resources for its upkeep than stamps do.

Maybe i missed the point too :P You're funny Narxysus

I should point out that I don't live a life so austere that I could be at home in a cardboard box (though they sure are nice!).  I am certain, however, that I am a fair bit more restrained than most, and something that continually vexes me is justifying how I spend my money etc, and I am also not passionate about anything like some of you seem to be with cars (e.g. Mr Cheddar here), so I wondered if others think about these things conciously, and if you don't, I want to know what your responses are when the issue is bought to your attention.
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Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #11 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:03PM »
I actually give more to charity a week than i spend on modifying my car... but then I haven't modified it and have little intention to ;D
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Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #12 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:18PM »
I don't give any money to charity.

I spend that money on junk food.  :P
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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #13 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:44PM »
Today I 'purchased' some R32 wheels. The owner requested I donated the money to the cancer council instead of giving him the cash. I see it as a win-win. I acquire goods and the money goes towards a good cause.

Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #14 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:51PM »
This is fair, but do you ever consider that the relative difference between you and Joe Bloggs may not be as important as the absolute contributions you are each making?

Narx, my brain has been fried this week and I really have little idea of what you mean.

I doubt I would spend MORE on my cars over a 15 year period, versus someone who buys a new car every 3 years (for example).
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Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #15 on: Sep 9, 2008, 10:54PM »
Today I 'purchased' some R32 wheels. The owner requested I donated the money to the cancer council instead of giving him the cash. I see it as a win-win. I acquire goods and the money goes towards a good cause.
Ha! Did he want to see a receipt? I'd just take the wheels and keep the cash!  ;D
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Offline cruizer

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 10, 2008, 12:53AM »
Ha! Did he want to see a receipt? I'd just take the wheels and keep the cash!  ;D

Kinda hope you are joking cos that is really dirty.

Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:29AM »
Narx, my brain has been fried this week and I really have little idea of what you mean.

I doubt I would spend MORE on my cars over a 15 year period, versus someone who buys a new car every 3 years (for example).

I'm saying that what Joe Bloggs does shouldn't matter when you are trying to consider what you should do.  I don't think it is a sturdy justification to say "he does X so it's ok for me to do X-y".  I'm not having at you in particular Budge, bear in mind.  I'm just asking questions  :)
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Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #18 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:36AM »
I disagree.

Everything is relative.  We make comparisons every hour of every day throughout our lives, what I have done is no different.

Its like these bloody Co2 emission reduction targets, 10% by 2020, bla bla bla... these people compare what other people are saying, they compared results and data, then make their own decisions and statements.

Its just like me comparing the posts you make Narx, to the posts someone like Chris makes... complex, probing questions or cheese!?
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #19 on: Sep 10, 2008, 09:18PM »
I killed one person this morning, but it's ok, because my neighbour killed 5 before breakfast!

See?
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Offline Budgie

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #20 on: Sep 10, 2008, 09:29PM »
I meant within reason Narx, but I see what your saying.

Actually, i'm not sure how I decide what is 'within reason' either.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 10, 2008, 09:48PM »
This is beyond my level, I seriously don't understand...
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline evlknvl

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:53PM »
Do i feel guilty, NO. I give as much to those around me as I do on the car! (escpecially the missus, LOL). And you can do more than just give money to charity to feel like your doing the right thing (voluntary work, being environmentally aware, community input/help etc).

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 10, 2008, 11:56PM »
...Narx' are you a member of any socialist parties? 'cause you sound a bit like one  :P

I mean... If the Government were to tax every car modification and contribute that money back into the health care/education then we'd be doing something good for society... but they won't. Yay! corporate tax cuts!
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #24 on: Sep 11, 2008, 12:17AM »
Having another HONEST read of this thread,

Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"? I don't understand the point of your post. You might as well say, why do you like to wear the colour yellow? People arn't born the same, have you thought the appreciation, feeling of adrenalin, freedom of fun associated with cars?

appreciation - i build up a house, yeh sure i'm proud of it, I can't exactly take it for a nice summers day cruise can I?
adrenalin - sorry, I can't climb on a rollercoaster at 2am when I feel like it, oh wait, I can't adjust the corners in it to make it more fun either, maybe I can race a few friends with their rollercoasters to see who can finish first?
fun - I can't take my rollercoaster to a bbq picnic with friends on a nice sunday either.

I honestly DO NOT care about polluting (if it was that bad, shit will be going down ASAP), the real problem is our population growing so fucking fast. Cars back in 1970 we're WORSE than nowdays. A race car driven once a week with fuel pumping out it's arse won't harm much compared to that person driving a car in peak hour traffic everyday.

I'm sorry, I don't like analysing art, watching sport religiously, playing cards, drinking wine, pulling weeds from the garden, or whatever. Maybe i'm not old enough yet?

But i'm sure alot of us think along the same lines. Cars are a personality of mine, they extend me beyond my physical appearance.

Sorry if it's on the agressive side, i'm fucking raging at the moment.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SAIUN

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #25 on: Sep 11, 2008, 12:46AM »
Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"?

I'll say it. I honestly don't care. Hell, I turn the lights on during the day instead of opening the curtains.

Haven't bought any camshafts, though.  :-\
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Offline Colby

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #26 on: Sep 11, 2008, 03:13PM »
Quote
ty for the largely intelligent responses, and even the Mainland Colby ones too.

Are you calling me a fence sitter?  or maybe you're calling me the epitomy of the everage response?  Either one is fine with me.
(just let me know if I should be offended, or happy, or if you were refering to cheese)

Quote
appreciation - i build up a house, yeh sure i'm proud of it, I can't exactly take it for a nice summers day cruise can I?
adrenalin - sorry, I can't climb on a rollercoaster at 2am when I feel like it, oh wait, I can't adjust the corners in it to make it more fun either, maybe I can race a few friends with their rollercoasters to see who can finish first?
fun - I can't take my rollercoaster to a bbq picnic with friends on a nice sunday either.

I'm a homeless person that lives in a tent which I carry up and down the big dipper hills while i'm heading to my sunday morning AA meeting in the park befor picnic lunch.  I do plenty else   :P

Offline SSS

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #27 on: Sep 11, 2008, 04:01PM »
Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"?

I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources

Well, the last one isn't so true, i do carpool with my wife 4/5 days of the week going to work. However, hypocritically, the injectors that are going in as part of my rather ridiculous turbo setup will empty a full 60L tank of BP's best in just over 15min at full noise. Take that, Bugatti Veyron.  :)
My U12 would probably be a smidge happier without a cat and with a much bigger cam too.

Offline Smiley Of Terror

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #28 on: Sep 11, 2008, 08:48PM »
I signed up to another charity today. I'm kinda regretting it. stupid attractive girls selling things to me  >:(
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Why don't you do something else?
« Reply #29 on: Sep 11, 2008, 09:44PM »
Actually, i'm not sure how I decide what is 'within reason' either.

That is what I find most interesting, I think.  What information do people require to draw the lines they draw, and what information/influences would make them move those lines?  At least you're thinking about it.

...Narx' are you a member of any socialist parties? 'cause you sound a bit like one  :P

I mean... If the Government were to tax every car modification and contribute that money back into the health care/education then we'd be doing something good for society... but they won't. Yay! corporate tax cuts!

Believe it or not I have a Bachelor of Economics which was an almost entirely neoliberal education.  I spend my time now reading books that help me understand that the shit I learned in uni is largely inapplicable or at the very least misguided in the real world.

On your other comment, this would be a good way to force people to spend more on those things (if indirectly), but I am concerned with why people don't do it voluntarily on a larger scale than they do now.  Other than forcing it, how could you get people to divert their resources to things that yield a greater net benefit to society (as I outlined before) than their private spending does?

Are you calling me a fence sitter?  or maybe you're calling me the epitomy of the everage response?  Either one is fine with me.
(just let me know if I should be offended, or happy, or if you were refering to cheese)

I didn't even think about your forum name when I wrote that.  It was meant to be a witty, dairy-based remark.  Sorry!

I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources

What would it take to make you change your behaviour?

Having another HONEST read of this thread,

Are you fishing for people to say "I'm a tosser, I pollute, I waste big money on camshafts, I waste resources"? I don't understand the point of your post. You might as well say, why do you like to wear the colour yellow? People arn't born the same, have you thought the appreciation, feeling of adrenalin, freedom of fun associated with cars?

appreciation - i build up a house, yeh sure i'm proud of it, I can't exactly take it for a nice summers day cruise can I?
adrenalin - sorry, I can't climb on a rollercoaster at 2am when I feel like it, oh wait, I can't adjust the corners in it to make it more fun either, maybe I can race a few friends with their rollercoasters to see who can finish first?
fun - I can't take my rollercoaster to a bbq picnic with friends on a nice sunday either.

I honestly DO NOT care about polluting (if it was that bad, shit will be going down ASAP), the real problem is our population growing so fucking fast. Cars back in 1970 we're WORSE than nowdays. A race car driven once a week with fuel pumping out it's arse won't harm much compared to that person driving a car in peak hour traffic everyday.

I'm sorry, I don't like analysing art, watching sport religiously, playing cards, drinking wine, pulling weeds from the garden, or whatever. Maybe i'm not old enough yet?

But i'm sure alot of us think along the same lines. Cars are a personality of mine, they extend me beyond my physical appearance.

Sorry if it's on the agressive side, i'm fucking raging at the moment.

This is pretty much exactly the response I'm looking for.  I'm trying my best not to be pretentious or holier-than-thou in this thread.  Sometimes I worry, a lot, about the things other people do that I think they shouldn't do, and I wonder what are the real fundamental differences that make them do those things, whereas I do not?

Your motivations for liking and being passionate about cars are entirely justified, and I would be lying out my arse if I said I disagreed with all of it.  I get the same rush as anybody driving like the Stig.  Where we seem to differ is in our evaluation of the alternatives (and perhaps I don't get quite as jolly as you about boost kicking in etc) - I can't hobbyise cars knowing what I know about the alternative uses of those resources, and the costs that come with doing it, etc etc.  You do not draw the same line, but presumably you have a line - I assume you would be hesitant about the 2am joyrides if you had to sacrifice a baby each time!

So, the question(s) is why is your line different from mine?  Is it just our different personalities?  We have access to roughly the same information about alternatives, but perhaps we put different stock in that information.  What would it take for you to draw your line where I draw mine?  What do you need for that to be a realistic possibility?

For example, if I could be persuaded that cars could be made sustainable (in terms of fuel, infrastructure etc), and if there were no causes out there which were visibly for want of resources (e.g. if there were no homeless people because enough public housing was available), I think I would quite willingly hobbyise cars (as indeed I nearly have done many times over).
Doo-woop-shoobie-doo-waah