Author Topic: CRAZY insurance prices  (Read 10338 times)

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Offline cruizer

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #30 on: Apr 2, 2007, 07:09PM »
Yeh i know chris, but like i said if i get caught i know its my fault, no complaining from me.


Quote
I heard a very good debate on talk back radio the other day. A bloke had gotten flashed overtaking a truck at 120k's in a 100 zone.
His main arguments were:
- a speed camera doesn't give you a lecture about speeding
- you can't argue with a speed camera
- it took 4 months to see the fine, which he could continue driving like a weapon in that time.

I dont know about other states but over here they crap on about 'speed cameras save lives' all they do is make the police christmas party better.

/end rant.


Yeh but IF he wasn't doing over the speed limit their would be no problem with the police....

Offline Abaddon

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #31 on: Apr 3, 2007, 12:02PM »
Not sure why you are calling him a revenue raising policeman if you were clearly exceeding the speed limit...Btw i have never been pulled over by a cop other than a bretho, no fines, anything.

The reason I call him a revenue raising policeman is because he set up a speed trap in a stupid location where there was no threat to anybody.  I have no problem with being booked I just think it's a waste of police time and taxpayer/speeder dollars putting a policeman in a place like that, why not put the speed trap in a more built up area (there was one 2 km up the road, which everyone cruising along the road would have slowed down for or deserved to get booked)  The "fuzz" as you put it could have been protecting property and human life instead of some trees beside a perfectly good road.  That's why I was calling him a revenue raising policeman, because he decided to book people on a safe stretch of road where people with common sense may speed.  I wasn't complaining about the fact that I was booked, I was talking about sensible speeding, and because I'm a sensible driver that is the only time in my seven years of driving I have been booked...Had the police car not been concealed by bush I know that I would not have been booked as I was driving to suit the road conditions and visibility and could have slowed to a stop after having seen him.

And btw In my seven years of driving that is the only time a cop has pulled me over and booked me either. So Cruizer, I'm thinking your what 2 maybe 3 years of fine free driving really hasn't earned you enough credibility for me to give a crap what you think.
« Last Edit: Apr 3, 2007, 12:15PM by Abaddon »
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Offline cruizer

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #32 on: Apr 3, 2007, 02:04PM »
Ah that burnt abaddon  ???. I wasn't giving you crap, I was merely stating that you broke the law, therefore the cop was well within his rights.
That's why I was calling him a revenue raising policeman, because he decided to book people on a safe stretch of road where people with common sense may speed. 

I love that 'people with common sense may speed' thats like saying, 'people with common sense will willfully break the law'.

So Cruizer, I'm thinking your what 2 maybe 3 years of fine free driving really hasn't earned you enough credibility for me to give a crap what you think.

I'm thinking that your relatively insignificant contribution to this forum doesn't give you any credibility on here. I think considering my relatively decent contribution to this forum gives me some credibilty.

Now back onto topic... ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 3, 2007, 02:11PM by cruizer »

Offline chr1S

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #33 on: Apr 3, 2007, 02:11PM »
this is getting out of hand eh..

abbadon ASAIK hasn't been a bad member to piss others off by whoring, flaming, posting random shit, etc..
cruiser you've been on here a while too but meh

it's not about creditability or whatnot, if someone has a valid point then they're right..

just drop it, it's not worth having an argument over.

If you wish to continue, im sure it will be locked and you guys can do it via PM's.
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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline cruizer

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #34 on: Apr 3, 2007, 02:19PM »
Fine...truce, we don't need anymore flame wars or crap on this site. Kinda went south of the topic anyways. Like i said...back on topic.

The high prices of insurance actually make me wonder if its worth it. If you consider the cost of the car, insurance, rego and repairs you wonder if you were better off investing the money...but then again once your driving it's different hey  ;D

Offline chr1S

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #35 on: Apr 3, 2007, 02:27PM »
did you turn 35 years old over night or something ?
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline cruizer

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #36 on: Apr 3, 2007, 02:39PM »
Haha no. But if you think about it logically...if you started investing at this age, by the time you're 40 you'll have enough money to do anything you want with a pintara  ;D
e.g. what the car has cost me so far in the last 2 years:
$1100 rego, $900 insurance, $3500 mods, $2500 upkeep and repairs, $2500 car cost, approx $1000 petrol
= $11,500
If that money was invested in debutures (safe form of investment other than sitting in the bank) at a fixed rate of 8% (fair rate fo current market) after the 2 years you would be looking at having $13,413 approx. Add savings from income and you could have a deposit on a house.
Im just saying that even though people consider a car as an asset it depreciates. Considering accounting definitions though i pretty much consider a car as a liability because it results in future economic outlay.
But i justify i as a hobby  ;D
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Offline Abaddon

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #37 on: Apr 3, 2007, 04:39PM »
Truce Accepted  :)

But just for the record and so that I finally get my point across for people to think what they will about it:
Ah that burnt abaddon  ???. I wasn't giving you crap, I was merely stating that you broke the law, therefore the cop was well within his rights.
I never said you were giving me crap, merely that I didn't give a crap about your having not been pulled over for any violation in your short period of driving experience.  I never said that the cop was not within his rights, merely that I would have been more comfortable if I had been booked in an area where I felt I was being a threat to society (not that I would have been speeding there)
I love that 'people with common sense may speed' thats like saying, 'people with common sense will willfully break the law'.
That is exactly what I said; I truly believe that a police speed trap would better serve the community when located in a position where speeding will likely cause an accident (residential, severe or blind corners, bad road conditions, locations with a lot of traffic etc).  And yes your average person who has common sense and does consider their own safety, the safety and feelings of other road users and their property can and do speed (cruizer, you yourself admitted to speeding not so long ago) and by doing so 'will willfully break the law'
I'm thinking that your relatively insignificant contribution to this forum doesn't give you any credibility on here. I think considering my relatively decent contribution to this forum gives me some credibilty.

And cruizer, It was not my intention to attack you.  I never mentioned this forum or the credibility of your posts or opinions.  It is still my opinion that I don't think your driving experience without offence, which I too could have expressed for 6.8 years up until a month ago does not mean anything to me or add any strength to your post at all, and until you have been booked you can't go around telling people that you won't have a problem with it.

In short: If you speed you may get caught, no problems with that, i would however prefer if police would focus on catching lawbreakers in locations where there is a significant risk to the community as a whole.  They will make less revenue as most people (with common sense) will slow down in that situation, but there is more chance of saving human life and I for one think that is worthwhile.

cuizer: I just wanted to clear, the air; I didn't want you thinking that I don't like you, or have something against you.

Now back onto topic... ;D
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Offline Taiwan Corsair

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #38 on: Apr 3, 2007, 04:40PM »
If you invested it in an agressively managed share fund you could expect it to double in value every five or six years. The diversification reduces the risk to almost nothing (especially if its managed by somone competent) and at that rate you could expect to have... a lot of money one day

Offline Taiwan Corsair

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #39 on: Apr 3, 2007, 04:41PM »
I hope my rant didn't start you guys off on some kind of feud...

Offline chr1S

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #40 on: Apr 3, 2007, 04:53PM »
Quote
Haha no. But if you think about it logically...if you started investing at this age, by the time you're 40 you'll have enough money to do anything you want with a pintara 

and don't you think at that age you would have alot of other better things to worry about ?

such as your kids in high school and the future possibility of expenses such as university. get your fun out of the way now IMO, if you save it for later, you'll regret it heh...

you got the chance, go for it !
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline Abaddon

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #41 on: Apr 3, 2007, 04:57PM »
It's true, cars cost a lot, and they mostly don't ever give much back.

But the question is, do you need a car.

My answer is yes, public transport is too much of a hassle for me as it will keep me from making money.  So I need a car.  I haven't got the option to invest all that car money and be a bit richer.  The question is how much can I afford to spend.

And you need registration, upkeep & repairs and petrol.

If you want mods and upgrades, awesome, buy them.

I for one don't need a uber sweet sick ass quick pretty car.  Sure I like the idea of having one, and I would enjoy having one.  And I can afford to buy one.

Since this post is about insurance I guess I should get to the point.  So the question financially is...Do you need insurance?

Now everyone needs third party insurance.  I personally can't afford to buy a new Ferarri if I write one off.

But if I crash my car (or it's stolen) I can afford to buy myself a new vehicle which will suit my needs.  Not my wants, it may not be nearly as cool as the car I currently have.  But it will suit my needs.  So I guess I can look at the option of not taking out comprehensive insurance, investing the money I spend on comprehensive insurance.  Pretty soon I'll save more than the value of my car and at that point I'm better off than if I had comprehensive insurance.  And if I crash my car I can buy something just as cool, if not better than my current car.  You risk losing your pride and joy and driving a crapheap, but the financial gains seem pretty worthwhile.

Just a thought... 8)

Anyone done this?

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Offline Budgie

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #42 on: Apr 3, 2007, 05:22PM »
Anyone done this?

My bluebird is not insured.  Has not been for a year or so...  But I don't drive it more than 100km every two weeks now.  When it was insured it has always been 3rd party, anything more was just not worth it!  Better to save the money.

My TRX is soon to be 3rd party insured, as I drive in heavy traffic six times a week on the western side of melbourne.  The car is rock solid, brakes well, tyres are good, but coming into winter I can't afford to go into the back of a merc for whatever reason and have to pay for it out of my own pocket.  This car is my A ---> B car and does the job brilliantly.

You could say the bluebird is my 'hobby'
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Offline cruizer

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #43 on: Apr 3, 2007, 07:50PM »
and don't you think at that age you would have alot of other better things to worry about ?

such as your kids in high school and the future possibility of expenses such as university. get your fun out of the way now IMO, if you save it for later, you'll regret it heh...

you got the chance, go for it !

Thats what I tell my parents atleast twice a week! Now I'm going to tell them you said it and their is no argument  ;D

If you invested it in an agressively managed share fund you could expect it to double in value every five or six years. The diversification reduces the risk to almost nothing (especially if its managed by somone competent) and at that rate you could expect to have... a lot of money one day

Yeh agree with that, I just didn't want to come out saying that because people would be like "shares aren't a very safe investment rah rah". If you know what you are doing you can expect to make much money.

Yeh see I wonder the same thing abaddon. The next car i want to get is a turbo rwd...therefore i'm going to get raped for insurance. There is no way i will spend $2000 on comprehensive insurance a year if the car costs me less than $10,000! I would love comprehensive insurance BUT i think there is a certain limit. Depends if you know your rate of return will cover expenses in the event you have an accident.

I guess it almost like a trade off:
1. Pay alot for comprehensive and have peace of mind and financial security (i.e. you know you won't have to buy a new car);
2. Pay less for 3rd party and ensure you put the other money somewhere smart (invested, even if you invest low risk you still make $1000 a year.)

Things are much more fun when we are friends :D

Offline Ammerty

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #44 on: Apr 3, 2007, 08:18PM »
i have so obviously broken the law before, now i'm not one to argue with a cop if he's giving me a fine but does anyone actually beleive that speed cameras make people slow down?
i think if the cops really want people to slow down n their not just revenue raising the camera would be in plain sight, and at least people would slow down for that but as soon as they start to hide its not to slow us down its only to catch us, and take our moneys. I can also tell you one thing for sure, a person is ALOT more likely to speed like a mad-man (just after a camera) when they are infact mad (p*ssed off), because they just got flashed, and a p*ssed off person is gonna go alot faster too.
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Offline rathies

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Re: CRAZY speed camera ranting
« Reply #45 on: Apr 3, 2007, 09:25PM »
mm we need a speed camera rant thread. I think its funny how they say on the radio after the news 'by travelling at just 65k's in a 60 zone you are twice as likely to be involved in a serious crash'

umm shit, thats weird, considering the aus design rule allows speedos to be out by upto 10k's. I dont like it when road safety authorities preach this shit when they didn't even pass year 10 science.
I got told by mr blogs once (when getting a fine for following another car too close) it takes 40m to stop from 60ks', first of all even a shopping trolley stops quicker than that. second of all I bet the coppa wouldn't say that if he pulled over a V8 supercar or something with brakes bigger than his ego.

as soon as you get into a car your chance of dying goes up 10fold, maybe they should encourage us to become a nation of push-bike riders.
« Last Edit: Apr 3, 2007, 09:27PM by rathies »
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Offline chr1S

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #46 on: Apr 3, 2007, 10:04PM »
Quote
but does anyone actually beleive that speed cameras make people slow down?

no, you slow down before them then go back to what u were doing after it lol
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline slim

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Re: CRAZY speed camera rant
« Reply #47 on: Apr 3, 2007, 10:58PM »
maybe we should get the European cameras where they know the distance between the sensors,
the time it will take a car doing the speed limit to travel between the sensors.
year ten science again !

SO if you are exceeding the speed limit then camera goes flash !!
Also should be used to keep track of people going under speed limits !! ( a +- 5kph)

2 problems here:
1 - only really good on free/highways, closed roads with no exits.
     But could be used to get people speeding throu trafic lights, damn
2-  pull over after going past a sensor and wait for time to past then carry on speeding, European have them fixed locations.


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Offline JelloBello

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #48 on: Apr 3, 2007, 11:06PM »
There was a thing on fixed speed camera's in Australia on A Current Affair tonight (I wasn't watching it just heard bits and pieces). Apparently they've been trialling them in NSW and hope to soon roll them out Australia wide.
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Offline rathies

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #49 on: Apr 3, 2007, 11:14PM »
nah keep em in NSW, we dont need thier paranoia over here.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #50 on: Apr 3, 2007, 11:36PM »
Anyone done this?

I bought my Corsair for $3700 in Jan 2001.  I could have been paying $1000 per year for comprehensive, but I just opted for 3rd party.  I am still driving the car, and have never needed comprehensive insurance, so there you go.

It's just a choice of risk, and how much you are willing to take on, given the rewards involved.
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Offline Taiwan Corsair

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #51 on: Apr 4, 2007, 05:19PM »
does anyone actually beleive that speed cameras make people slow down?

If speed cameras were plainly visible, then everyone could speed as much as they like, safe in the knowledge that if there was a camera, they would see it and be able to slow down in time to avoid a fine. Its the thought that there might be one lurking almost anywhere that puts a doubt in most people's minds, is it not? I've never been caught speeding, mostly because I know I can't afford to pay the fine.

I just signed up for 3rd party insurance today. Its costing me $279 for the year, which I'm paying in monthely installments. I have no previous insurance, so I don't have a rateing yet. On a car that I only paid $2400 for, I don't see the need for comprehensive and I have an alarm to deter theives. It seems to me to make a lot of financial sense. If somone without insurance hits me, I've got just enough cover to replace the car (preferably with one I can install my mods on) and if I make a mistake, at least I don't have to cover some vast amount of money for whatever I run into. I don't plan to have an accident, but the roade can be an unpredictable place. Driving sensibly and not taking unneccessary risks is the first line of defence and always will be... against speeding tickets and against accidents.

We already have fixed speed cameras in Victoria. Quite a few of them. People know where they are and slow down for them, but at least they keep people on their toes: you have to concentrate on your drveing to know when your getting to one.
« Last Edit: Apr 4, 2007, 05:22PM by Taiwan Corsair »

Offline Jono

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #52 on: Apr 4, 2007, 08:44PM »
I've been paying about $240 a year for third party property, fire and theft cover in almost three years of driving, which means I've spent about $700 on insurance. This is a total amount over two cars. If I had have opted for full comprehensive insurance I would have spent near $4k.

I crashed the first car (tired '82 Celica). Put it on its side on a dirt road in the second day of having it on the road. Lots of panel damage down one side, broken rear view mirror and a bent bumper and tie-rod. I fixed it up for a total of $106 which I spent on a "Bugger" sticker ;D and a set of second hand lights for the car, one of which I needed. I made up a new bumper out of scrap steel my dad had lying around and straightened everything else out as best I could, and left the paint scrapes and dings on the car as it wasn't worth fixing because it was so old and run-down. I drove it regularly for 3 months after the accident. Sure, it didn't look good, but it got me around, and it didn't look all that spesh before I pranged it either.

I have had one accident in my second car which was my fault, I ran into the back of an old camry in stop-start traffic. I broke 5 of the 6 lights on the front of the car, pushed the bumper bar in and bent the bonnet up. That cost me $250 all up which included second hand lights, a second hand bonnet and some filler and matt black paint which is still on it today. The owner of the Camry never contacted me. To get the bonnet painted would probably cost me about $250-300.

If I had have had full comp. I would still have been better off fixing both cars myself because the excess would have been more than what I spent on repairs.

The joys of owning old, cheap cars :)
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Offline Ammerty

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Re: CRAZY speed camera ranting
« Reply #53 on: Apr 4, 2007, 08:49PM »
mm we need a speed camera rant thread.

lol done mate  :D


wow this speed camera stuff became a bit of a hot topic - here, continue rant :D
http://www.antrx.com/smf/index.php?topic=13061.new;boardseen#new
« Last Edit: Apr 4, 2007, 08:56PM by Ammerty »
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When are you not drunk Ammerty...lol  ::) ;D

Offline Ammerty

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #54 on: Apr 4, 2007, 09:08PM »
aiight so to continue from one of my previous posts i am going to opt for third party (fire and theft included), its gonna cost $380 a year, SO MUCH BETTER THAN $5000.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #55 on: Apr 4, 2007, 09:43PM »
aiight so to continue from one of my previous posts i am going to opt for third party (fire and theft included), its gonna cost $380 a year, SO MUCH BETTER THAN $5000.

Indeed - now just eliminate yourself as being a possible accident factor, then you only have to worry about others, and cautious driving can minimise that as well.  Also, bear in mind that in the long run (i.e. your entire life), insurance will always be a loss for you (unless you're an outlying statistic, which you assure us you no longer are  ;D). 

If it was a fair game, there would be no insurance companies, because they'd make no profit.  So on average, the insurance companies must recieve more money than they pay, which in turn means that the average person purchasing insurance will pay more money than they receive.

So I guess you could say it's not even an option of risk - the average person will always be better off not having insurance, at any arbitrary point in time.  The only real factor is your temporal location in this 'average' - your situation is a good example, Ammerty - you've taken a loan for your car, so presumably you don't have the money to replace it right now, hence the desire for insurance.  But unless you're a total bum, I think we can safely say that you will be able to afford another car at some point in your life.

The joys of owning old, cheap cars :)

This is a really good point, and is something that I find myself increasingly interested in as an economics student growing up in this era of global warming, human impact on the planet etc.

So many of us are willing to trade our time for money which we spend on intangible benefits (like the prestige of owning a new car) which impart an ambiguous level of utility.  But though our time is essentially free, and we are all endowed with roughly the same amount of it, the things we trade for it are not free - resources are consumed/embodied the things we get.

A question I find myself constantly asking is - do we have a responsibility to not constantly seek to better our standard of living, as measured by what we consume?  A core assumption of classical economics is non-satiation - the notion that more is always better than less.  But is this a valid assumption? 

Given the finite nature of resources, but the infinite time available to mankind as a species (i.e. so long as we can keep breeding, we keep producing people who are automatically, freely endowed with time they can trade by labouring etc), should we be saying "Hey, you know, I'm comfortable with this life, and I don't need anything else" more than we do now?
Doo-woop-shoobie-doo-waah

Offline bogan_bob

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #56 on: Apr 4, 2007, 10:22PM »
aiight so to continue from one of my previous posts i am going to opt for third party (fire and theft included), its gonna cost $380 a year, SO MUCH BETTER THAN $5000.

awww WTF fire and theft on my R31 is $410  :o >:( oops should pay that too its due next week  :P insurance company [i seem to suffer from tourettes]s

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Offline Taiwan Corsair

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Re: CRAZY insurance prices
« Reply #57 on: Apr 5, 2007, 12:43PM »
There are some people who would indeed argue that the kind of economy we have now, based on continual growth of everything, including consumption, is inherantly unsustainable. Continual growth is not possible with finite resources. People (like Peter Costello) who seem to think way to improve people's lives is to grow the populations so as to grow consumption and therefor increase whealth seem to me to be very short sighted. What if the reason that growth in the population is slowing in Australia is because there is a natural, perhaps biological mechanism that prevents overcrowding. If we overcome that artificially, then what? We'll destroy the place. We'll fill up the land till there's nowhere left for trees.

As for the statistis... I think some of us have demonstrated that they have a very very high probability of crashing their car in the next year or so, and the rest of us have to bear the cost... if indeed we decide to have insurance. I had none until very recently, like I said, and turned out to save me money. The thing is though, when I was driving in heavy traffic, at night, in the rain... well I couldn't really enjoy it as much because I was worried about denting somthing expensive. No to say I plan to throw caution to the wind... but I have gained a (perhaps rather abstract and intangible) benefit from 3rd party insurance. Peace of mind.

I think about 90% of what we spend our money on these days falls into that 'intangible' category. Travel, education... its all for the sake of ideas, but that doesn't mean its not worthwhile: it just means ideas are very very important. People are willing to die, fight wars etc. for ideas.