Author Topic: The upgraded fuel pump.  (Read 2669 times)

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Offline fez200

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The upgraded fuel pump.
« on: Sep 13, 2006, 12:36PM »
i have finally decided on getting a Bosch 040 pump. hopefully thats the go..!!

A friend asked me why a different fuel pump is needed,whats wrong with the one youve got.???

i told him that if you boost up your turbo or make mods and need more power that your standard pump cant handle the extra fuel needed to get the performance you need and in turn your motor can lean out.

Im not sure this was totally the right answer. sounded good though.

i have been told in a previous post that with a standard turbo and better exhaust and intercooler with around 15psi you wont notice much difference without a better fuel pump..????
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Offline phreeky

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #1 on: Sep 13, 2006, 01:31PM »
i highly doubt the t25g (std turbo) can flow more than the stock fuel pump can cope with......it's quite a small turbo. so i imagine you'll notice no difference even with the standard fuel pump (if you notice it improve, then chances are you were damaging your engine before).

however, the fuel pump is quite old by now, they can fail, and when they do sometimes they cause a slight lean out and if you don't notice the pinging you could be saying bye-bye to your rings quite quickly.

i'm getting a new fuel pump quite shortly, will probably go a bosch 984 for no particular reason. i've never changed a fuel pump before so no idea at all which will be easier to fit, but i'd say the 040 is quite a big pump.

Offline fez200

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #2 on: Sep 13, 2006, 02:00PM »
yeah i think im up for a dyno tune anyway. havent had one done since i upped the boost and got the intercooler in.

ive used the old g-tech to try and get a base HP figure but it changes, its been reading 170 HP and then 226 HP at the wheels. thats a big difference. id reckon it should be around the 226 HP with all the mods done.
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Offline phreeky

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #3 on: Sep 13, 2006, 05:13PM »
i don't think you'll make close to a true 226hp atw with a standard turbo, it's most likely theorectically impossible - it doesn't flow enough. i've read somewhere that garret rate it at around 220hp - so the most it'd make is 220hp at the flywheel, say maybe 180hpatw on a good day, most likely less.

doesn't mean you wont find a happy figure dyno that'll give a good reading :p

i've got a 3" exhaust (except still stock dump unfortunately, gotta get that sorted), fmic and run around 15psi - i'm sure you'll notice that if you watch the boost gauage as it climbs in the revs, by the time it hits 7000rpm it'll be down to around 10psi. just too small (unless you're lucky and have a rebuilt+hiflowed one but don't know it).

Offline LUP15

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #4 on: Sep 13, 2006, 05:47PM »
im making 145awkw which is nearly 200hp on std ecu... get a set of cams and it will go nearly 160kw, with tuning though. thats the figure im hoping for when i get probably an emanage blue and a set of cams. i think 160kw will be quiet fun before i take the plunge for 200kw.

but yeah i need to confirm my power levels on another dyno too...
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2006, 05:49PM by LUP15 »
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Offline Craazy

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #5 on: Sep 13, 2006, 07:03PM »
i had 150kw's at all 4 before i smashed my clutch, all on standard ecu running 11psi, the turbo is hi flowed and even hi flowed it will still make no more than 11psi at 7000rpm so thats why i set it low, from what i have seen the bosch fuel pumps are a pain in the ass to fit to an attesa so be warned if your doing it yourself your up for a challenge as the bosch is a big unit.

dont think that the gtrech is accurate with an AWD for the HP figure. they dont read properly in AWD's yet. so bank on a figure of way less than 200hp at all fours.

lup: if your looking for a good tune, probably not a good investment in an E-manage, better off with either a bikirom (http://www.bikirom.com/index.html) board, which are very good, i was going to get one before i found that we can get an apexi power fc for u12's and u13's check here: http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/product_info.php?cPath=22_53&products_id=65&osCsid=064a6c89a35f5c5eda98373e722348da


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Offline fez200

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #6 on: Sep 13, 2006, 11:38PM »
im also running a jaycar electronic boost controller.

bang for bucks this is a great little device. tuning it is as easy as.

i have a low setting of 10PSI and it stays constant at that till the end of the rev range.

however when i up it to the 14-15psi high setting it does hit 14 but still tapers off to about 11. i know you can tune the controller to stay at a constant level, but i reckon maybe the turbo has something to do with not being able to keep the boost up.

im off to central coast on saturday before the cruise to get it tuned and a power reading.
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Offline LUP15

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #7 on: Sep 14, 2006, 01:20PM »
powerfc not needed for my current mods plus dont have the money :( not familiar with the bikirom nor do i think my tuner will be either...
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Offline Craazy

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #8 on: Sep 14, 2006, 07:23PM »
you may think the power fc is not needed, but with any mod you do, you will  only get the best from it when it is tuned and it doesnt matter what kind of tuning of the ECU you get. but i would still recommend not hacking up your loom for an emanage. pay the extra and get a power FC at the end of the day you will have a much more verstile platform to work with.

the emanage is a very limited capability piggy back system, the basic emanage wont even be able to change your rev limiter. yes it may remove your boost cut but you can only alter your fueling in 5 spots....... on a 16x16 map........ that is pathetic, the minimum you are going to want to get a good tune is 128x128, the pfc and the biki surpass this.
you will also need to buy all this extra stuff just to do stuff like alter your timing with the ecu...... and add to that the more hacking of your loom.... completely not worth it when you look at all the options. dont get the greddy. you'd be better off with a bottom of the range microtech or a plug in wolf 3d.

the advantage of the fc and the biki is it will come plug and play, same with the wolf. you wont get the best from cams with just doing your fuel maps unfortunately


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Offline Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #9 on: Sep 14, 2006, 07:56PM »
I totally agree with Craazy. Power FCC is most likely the best option, Iv been weighing up options of ECU upgrades for a while and I think power FC is the best. No cutting of looms, can controll pretty much every aspect of the car you need it to control, its  the most popular ECU for imports, which makes it the easiest to find a tuner to tune it that has experience with it and its a known performer.

It is steep in price at $1500 with no controller but its expensive because its a custom made model of power FC (silvia power fc's are about $1000) The controllers a gimicky item anyway, Tuners dont use it they use a laptop.

Power FC will serve you well in the long run, installation will also be cheaper as it plugs in directly.

I know which ill be choosing when it comes to it.
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Offline LUP15

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #10 on: Sep 14, 2006, 09:16PM »
errm they have a plug and play loom for the emanage onto the bluebirds (same one as gtir). like i said basic mods wont need a powerfc, why spend hundreds of dollars on a powerfc tune for that extra few kw, when it can be better spent elsewhere?

it all comes down to the budget and sorry the powerfc isnt the holygrail in every situation

oh and also i wouldnt want to be increasing the rev limiter on a std sr20det or even a toughened one unless its got aftermarket valves and springs. boost cut? dont think im gonna hit it on a t25....

btw sorry for going off topic here fez
« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2006, 09:19PM by LUP15 »
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Offline Craazy

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #11 on: Sep 15, 2006, 07:51PM »
um yeah buddy, if it has a plug and play loom then it would be a stand alone unit...... thats where you would be wrong.

those extra dollars you spend now will save you heaps in the long run. this i know for sure as i have spent alot of money on my car and have learnt my llessons well. you are right that it is not the holy grail when it comes to ecu's but it is by for the easiest to change to and the ease of tuning them these days is far higher then an emanage. i can gaurantee that it willl end up costing you the same amount if not more to get the emanage installed and tuned  and you still wont have a properly running engine. unfortunately it just doesnt have the ability to change enough parametres in the maps. as for the rev limiter..... i was using that as a reference so that you would see what i am getting at with the parametres. as this is an obvious parametre for an untrained eye. and to think that you couldnt hit the boost cut on a t25 shows me this......

so do some more reading up on what you really need not what you think will do the job coz come a time in the short future, you will be doing it again and again and again. that is how the car works.


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Offline LUP15

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #12 on: Sep 16, 2006, 10:32AM »
http://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/bblist.php?brand=TRUST

go down to where it says "car specific harness"

ive had my t25 run on 15psi accidently and never hit cut. i dont think i'll ever run it at that, max would probably be 13.5psi. u could get an emange with the harness, looms etc and tuned for less than the cost of just the powerfc alone. if you think in the long run then of course it will be a better option. but this is now and my mods, turbo upgrades are still fair bit away yet. i dont like having redicoulous power if you can only use it on a straight line. whats the point

lets just leave it at that, there are many people who have been happy with emanage and of course many who havent. at the end of the day its all in the tuners hand
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Offline Craazy

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #13 on: Sep 16, 2006, 02:59PM »
well in that case, remember that you are the tuner and its in your hand so make a wise choice now or it will be a burden down the road.

oh yeah forgot to tell you that you will also more likely be defected for your emanage whereas they wouldnt pick up the powerfc. keep the defect matters in mind when making your decision aswell.

thats another reason a pfc will be a better choice, much harder to pick up something that looks factory


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Offline Craazy

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Re: The upgraded fuel pump.
« Reply #14 on: Sep 16, 2006, 03:07PM »
hahahaha, i just had a look at that site........

you Have read it wrong, the harness is just a connector into the emanage then lengths of wires leading to nothing, like i have been saying the whole time....... this IS a piggy back computer and if it had a plug and play harness then it would be a stand alone ecu.........

have a closer look and you will read the part where it says installation takes 1-2 hours, read up on the pfc and you will find it takes about 5-10 mins to change to the pfc.........

your still learning, read more!


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