Author Topic: ? max boost on stock ecu???  (Read 8942 times)

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Offline MAG86

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? max boost on stock ecu???
« on: Jun 9, 2006, 02:25PM »
Hey all,

I was woundering what is the max boost you can run a KA24 with just stock ecu and injectors?? and also with a noss chip? each stage?

im just thinking of putting a SMALL turbo, just to get more power in the low rev range....

if this has been covered before please link me...

im having trouble searching!

thanks!
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Offline bungs

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #1 on: Jun 9, 2006, 02:38PM »
less then 5psi with a t25. Even then that's pushing the limit.

Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #2 on: Jun 9, 2006, 02:46PM »
I would say none, since you can't get wastegate actuators that run lower than 4psi.

Offline DAN

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #3 on: Jun 10, 2006, 11:28PM »
i maxed out the sotck injectors easy with a t25 you just cant youse the stock ones and stock ecu aint a good idea i think you will need a chip done up to suit your setup.

Offline chr1S

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #4 on: Jun 11, 2006, 09:15AM »
0.00000000001psi
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Offline nazstang

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #5 on: Jun 13, 2006, 12:23AM »
-Nissan stanza ( KA-T)
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Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #6 on: Jun 14, 2006, 10:40AM »
I just want to get more power down low, 5 psi sound ok.... just to get over the intake resistance and all... im no horsepower hero!

####whats a real small turbo that would be well suited?###

 would something off a SAAB be good enough?

for the ecu...would one of the noss antrx chips be good enough too?

im pretty good at welding, ive done a few 4AGZE manifolds,even one for a 1986 Magna! so i will definitly be making most of it myself....

Thanks for the input.....
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #7 on: Jun 14, 2006, 12:04PM »
Noss's antrx chip would be good enough. You would need to chat to him about your setup and what has changed so he can make a chip to suit your mods and boost levels ect...

I wouldnt just buy a stage 3 chip and use that as the fuel maps would not be suited to anyone on boost.
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Offline noss

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #8 on: Jun 14, 2006, 12:39PM »
the stage 2 & 3 chips definately arent suited to boosted applications. they have been leaned out to 13:1 air fuel ratios and timing has been advanced by around 2-5 degrees across the entire rev range.

if you were to run a stage 2 or 3 chip, you'd likely cause some catastrophic engine damage.

running a stock ecu would be no better.

i do however, have a chip for turbo applications, but i would like to run it through some more testing. it hasnt been properly wide band tuned yet, although that is not far off happening (this weekend maybe?)

as for turbo size. simple. no smaller than a t25.

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Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #9 on: Jun 15, 2006, 10:28AM »
im currently bidding on a t25 on ebay... looks alright too!

I called the guy and he says theres no shaft play and the compressor wheel has AR .48 on it... not exactly sure what it means though...

So next on the list is Injectors! Yay....

Anything above 370cc?  can i salvage them off any other car at the wreckers? Where is the best place, best price.... not too large remember.

I was also looking at getting a Supra intercooler, they are so cheap, easy to come by... and small enough to fit anywhere...

Can I have a piece by piece parts list that you guys reccomend? ( especially the turbo guys...)
just incase i forget anything... do i need a fuel pressure regulator? Wheres the best place to hook up an oil feed?

And another thing, i really need to replace the seal between the block and gearbox housing, it leaks a bit now, very annoying. I may as well do a new timing chain and guides while im at it.... how much am i up for? can i buy the parts from any wher? repco/nissan/ etc....

thanks again

Sorry to sound like a noob but im not very familiar with these cars just yet...
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Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #10 on: Jun 15, 2006, 10:44AM »
0.48 relates to how large the cross sectional area is on the exhaust turbine housing.
small = boost comes on quicker but restricts the breathing capacity of the engine up in the higher rpms
large = boost comes on later but will not restrict the top end of the motor when the rpms are high

for example, i have a Garrett GT3040R with a 0.86AR exhaust housing, that would probably make full boost at 3800-4000rpms.
a 0.48 housing would make full boost around 2000-2500rpm.

anything above 370cc is fine for running 5psi or more.
you don't need a new fuel pressure regulator unless your stock one is stuffed.
oil feed can be hooked up from the oil pressure sender near the oil filter, you tee into it with a fitting or a distribution block.

you shouldn't be leaking ANYTHING from between the gearbox and the block, that is unless your rear main seal on the crank has had it.
you have to buy timing gear from nissan directly, about $300-400 for everything to change the timing gear (includes new headgasket and head bolts if you remove the head to do it).

Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #11 on: Jun 15, 2006, 11:22AM »
Oh mate thanks very much... i thought a 'T' piece would be alright for oil feed...

2000 to 2500rpm is exactly what i want!
I rechecked the turbo and its a M24, with a T2 flange... easy stuff

would these 420cc injectors be any good?


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/INJECTORS-420cc-suit-mitsubishi-toyota-nissan-etc_W0QQitemZ4649159840QQcategoryZ43807QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

should i look for something that has 'JECS" written on them?ive found plenty from a SR20, and CA18DET as well...

yeah i think its the main seal... not good eh! can i replace it from home? or would it be too hard...
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Offline noss

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #12 on: Jun 15, 2006, 12:38PM »
sr20 injectors will not fit, i dont think ca18 ones will either. you need top feed high impedance 11mm injectors (or 10mm) rx7 is the way to go. you should be able to pick up some 460cc rx7 injectors that are a straight fit for a good price.

with different injectors however comes the requirement of a new chip or an ecu tuned to suit.

as for the fpr.. feel free to tell me i'm wrong sss, but with installing different injectors, i have read that you need to adjust your fuel pressure to match what they were getting in their stock application.

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Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #13 on: Jun 15, 2006, 02:08PM »
I just assumed that 90% of OEM fuel systems run off base pressure of 43psi, which would mean no regulator change is required.

Offline noss

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #14 on: Jun 15, 2006, 02:40PM »
yep fair enough :)

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Offline DAN

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #15 on: Jun 17, 2006, 09:17AM »
i have now got my car back from the intercooler intslall place and ryan will be runing the wideband over my car today.
i have 460cc injectors and a t25 so what ever ryan comes up with should suite you.

Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #16 on: Jun 19, 2006, 11:10AM »
great stuff DAN... ive only just read your project cars thread...

its so much easier when you can see what others have done! good work!

i didnt win the turbo off ebay, i will keep trying though...

how much would a turbo noss chip set me back anyway? would it be a copy of yours?

maybe i will get him to do it on his next visit to melbourne! :)

ah well the list grows...

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Offline noss

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #17 on: Jun 19, 2006, 11:17AM »
i'll do 2 styles of chips for turbos. your basic chip which will fuel the engine properly for you under boost for around $140, and a performance chip for $180.


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Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #18 on: Jun 19, 2006, 06:27PM »
Sounds great...
would it just be plug in and go? or would there be any extra tuning needed?

I have an auto too, if thats any difference to DAN's...


These injectors are getting hard to find too!!
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Offline Jono

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #19 on: Jun 19, 2006, 10:37PM »
I believe the KA24E auto and manual ECUs are the same.
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Offline Kranzy

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #20 on: Jun 19, 2006, 10:45PM »
Thats right, the autos have another control box on top of the original ecu, i can say this for certain as im running an auto ecu in my manual.
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Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #21 on: Jun 20, 2006, 08:32AM »
Thats right, the autos have another control box on top of the original ecu, i can say this for certain as im running an auto ecu in my manual.

Ditto.

Offline noss

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #22 on: Jun 20, 2006, 10:46AM »
i've also run auto & manual ecu's, and the antrx chips came originally from an auto.

Sounds great...
would it just be plug in and go? or would there be any extra tuning needed?

I have an auto too, if thats any difference to DAN's...


These injectors are getting hard to find too!!

provided you are running the same boost, and stock timing on the distributor, there should be no further tuning required, but i have no problems with tweaking chips to suit your setup.

« Last Edit: Jun 20, 2006, 10:47AM by noss »

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Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #23 on: Jul 25, 2006, 01:46PM »
hey all,

im still looking for injectors for the possible turbo project.....its not easy!

ive found these Mazda RX7 13B turbo 550cc  ebay.... $265 any good??

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mazda-RX7-13B-Turbo-550cc-Injectors-part-no-195500-1370_W0QQitemZ260011120299QQihZ016QQcategoryZ43807QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

im usein AutoCAD to design an exhaust manifold, im still figuring out whether to have the turbo flange mounted to the right (gearbox) side of the engine, similar to the existing set-up....

##Can someone please post up some ideas?
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Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #24 on: Jul 25, 2006, 02:12PM »
http://www.antrx.com/smf/index.php?topic=10972.0

It annoys me that people don't take the time to look through even the first page of the performance section. :(

$265 sounds ok for those injectors, however you will always be taking a chance on 2nd hand injectors.

Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #25 on: Jul 27, 2006, 02:01PM »
ive read that thread stacks of times, that manifold just looks MASSIVE... is it really going to fit, even with slim-line thermo fans? im probably more used to looking unequal length runners(i think), like this



i was origionally thinking of buying one of these, and cutting some of the sections, then adding small lengths to make it line up with a KA24 flange, and also clear the front of the block etc. (i  would have to get a turbo to check distances/lengths etc)

this is a SR20DET, around $190, plus a doughnut or 2.... shouldnt cost too much just lotsa customisation.....

Any comments? Good idea?

ANother idea i had was to mount the turbo down low in the engine bay, right on the end of the existing manifold , just bolt an adaptor flange to existing, then weld T2/T3 flange to adaptor....  its a bit of a shortcut , but i think the radiator is too close :( 

Comments etc are welcome.
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Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #26 on: Jul 27, 2006, 02:04PM »
I wouldn't have bothered fabricating the manifold if it wasn't going to fit. And FYI the OEM thermofans are being binned and some new thinner fans are going to be placed in front of the radiator to push air through.

Offline bungs

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #27 on: Jul 27, 2006, 02:30PM »
Any comments? Good idea?

I dunno.. It has to be pretty much perfect where the turbo meets the manifold, there's not that much room down there especially if keeping the stock thermo fans. My compressor touches the bellhousing, and on the radiator side I had to cut out a plastic section and put a new bracket to hold the thermo fan up.

I suppose you'd have roughly 50mm more room if you relocate the fans to the front of the radiator.




Offline MAG86

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #28 on: Jul 27, 2006, 03:48PM »
Ah i understand a bit better now sss, your setup will have a LOT of torque i reckon...
you obviously are going to have a real weapon when its finally complete...

hey bungs, I was blinded by your rocker cover, nice work!
Is is Very snug downt the front there isnt it!

Can i please have more pices of your manifold? looks pretty good... :P

im wondering too how strong the Ti (with LSD)auto gearbox is, am i gonna bust something up with around 6-8psi?
 the CV's will definitly be upgraded,
but im unsure how strong the KA24 box is. my mate reckons they are stronger than the SR20 box? he says theres a way to adapt a ka24 box gearset into a SR20 housing or something.... i dunno ::)
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Offline SSS

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Re: ? max boost on stock ecu???
« Reply #29 on: Jul 27, 2006, 04:03PM »
The manual box is definately stronger than the pulsar boxes. as for the auto....well i don't think it'll last too long on 8psi to be honest.