Author Topic: Rolling UPHILL  (Read 8540 times)

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Offline hrmmmm

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Rolling UPHILL
« on: Mar 19, 2008, 08:16PM »
Was driving along Atkinson Dam Rd, which is about 20mins outside of Gatton today, and I was talking to junior (the new bloke I had playing passenger with me) and he told me to stop at the bottom of a certain hill on said road leave the truck in neutral, off the brakes and no park/maxi brake's on, and by some natural occurance in the ground my truck will be pulled UP THE HILL.
   This got me thinking, if this natural occurance in the ground can pull my 12 tonne truck uphill with relative ease, how much weight could it pull up hill, i will go back there when my truck is fully loaded and weighs close to 30  tonnes and see what happens.

Anyone else know of any weird things like this that occur naturally.

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #1 on: Mar 19, 2008, 09:07PM »
What?

How the fuck do you roll up hill from the standing start?  Or am I totally missing the point?
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #2 on: Mar 19, 2008, 09:17PM »
i must be missing something too

if by some chance you are by not powering the acceleration uphill by mechanical means and the vehicle moves uphill, you should notify the CSIRO immediately because your truck defies every law of physics that we know today
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Offline Luke

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #3 on: Mar 19, 2008, 09:24PM »
I've heard about this before, it's a load of shit! It's an optical illusion, it looks like your going up hill but your actually going down.
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #4 on: Mar 19, 2008, 09:25PM »
maybe there's a family of midgets who live at the bottom of teh hill and whenever a truck stops there they all get behind and push it up just to mess with the driver  ;D

either that or my physics teacher got it all very wrong.
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Offline FuzzyDropbear

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #5 on: Mar 19, 2008, 09:34PM »
maybe there's a family of midgets who live at the bottom of teh hill and whenever a truck stops there they all get behind and push it up just to mess with the driver  ;D

ROFL! Damn those mischievous midgets... They really should find something better to do with their spare time hey?  ;)
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #6 on: Mar 19, 2008, 09:39PM »
ROFL! Damn those mischievous midgets... They really should find something better to do with their spare time hey?  ;)

i'm sure noss could find better use of their time ;D :P
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #7 on: Mar 19, 2008, 10:11PM »
I think your mate is high.
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #8 on: Mar 19, 2008, 11:20PM »
I think your mate is high.
I second this man's notion.
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Offline Legend Killer

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #9 on: Mar 20, 2008, 01:47AM »
No i believe him In rocky we have a part of the road going up to our mountain and its called dead man gully. You stop in the middle of it turn off your engine handbrake off and leave it in neutral and you will get pushed up a hill a far distance
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #10 on: Mar 20, 2008, 03:55AM »
No i believe him In rocky we have a part of the road going up to our mountain and its called dead man gully. You stop in the middle of it turn off your engine handbrake off and leave it in neutral and you will get pushed up a hill a far distance

This is technically possible - gravity doesn't actually pull to the centre of the earth, it pulls from all points of mass and the strength of the pull is related to the mass of the bodies around the body in question (the truck).  So theoretically, if the mass of the hill which the truck gets pulled toward provided enough force to overcome (a) the friction and (b) the pull from the land behind and to the sides and below the truck, then the truck would move toward (up) the hill.  If the hill has a dense mineral, like lead or some shit in it, and the bottom of the gully has little mass (eg a bridge over a dry river) it would certainly be possible.

But it's probably an optical illusion.  Tell us this - if you hang a plumb line down from a point in the air, does it look like it's perpendicular to the bottom of the gully?  Or does it pull toward the hill?
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #11 on: Mar 20, 2008, 06:35AM »
How can it pull a truck up a hill if forces acting on the truck are in equilibrium when the truck is stopped?

It would need an external force at an angle that exceeds the trucks total force acting down onto the mountain, A perpindicular force to the x axis would not create any velocity change.
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #12 on: Mar 20, 2008, 08:17AM »
I've also heard of this. Theres a place in Perth and its called magnetic hill.

Watch this:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ato_SpxWayk
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #13 on: Mar 20, 2008, 10:22AM »
This is technically possible - gravity doesn't actually pull to the centre of the earth, it pulls from all points of mass and the strength of the pull is related to the mass of the bodies around the body in question (the truck).  So theoretically, if the mass of the hill which the truck gets pulled toward provided enough force to overcome (a) the friction and (b) the pull from the land behind and to the sides and below the truck, then the truck would move toward (up) the hill.  If the hill has a dense mineral, like lead or some shit in it, and the bottom of the gully has little mass (eg a bridge over a dry river) it would certainly be possible.

But it's probably an optical illusion.  Tell us this - if you hang a plumb line down from a point in the air, does it look like it's perpendicular to the bottom of the gully?  Or does it pull toward the hill?

Narxy, you fail to realise that the entire Earth is a mass.... so the dry river bed you refer to includes everything UNDERNEATH the river bed as well... like, the core, china... the chinese.

So... i dont care how much lead is in that hill... gravity will always pull through to the centre of the earth.

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Offline Luke

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #14 on: Mar 20, 2008, 01:24PM »
Narxy, you fail to realise that the entire Earth is a mass.... so the dry river bed you refer to includes everything UNDERNEATH the river bed as well... like, the core, china... the chinese.

So... i dont care how much lead is in that hill... gravity will always pull through to the centre of the earth.

No, he's right, it is possible. But, it wouldnt actually be noticable. Gravity is a VERY weak force. Everything that has mass in the universe is pulling on everything that has mass in the universe. The more mass something has, the stronger it's gravity is. Meaning that if there was an enormously dense piece of earth, the gravity there would be stronger. However, because gravity is so weak, the mass of the rest of the earth majorly outwheighs the mass of your pissy "magnetic hill". So, it is an optical illusion. Some one go there with a GPS and give us the hieght above sea level at the so called bottom and top of the hill, I'm confident you will find it's the other way around.
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Offline slim

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #15 on: Mar 20, 2008, 02:32PM »
I've also heard of this. Theres a place in Perth and its called magnetic hill.

Watch this:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ato_SpxWayk

Well i think we may have to cruise out there on day and test it out.
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Offline KA26DE+T

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #16 on: Mar 20, 2008, 04:06PM »
Well i think we may have to cruise out there on day and test it out.

Agreed.

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #17 on: Mar 20, 2008, 04:25PM »
As has been pointed out, it's extremely unlikely to be as a result of gravity since that's very weak. But if we're being scientific asshats here I'd like to point out that it is theoretically possible, and not necessarily just because of Narxy's lead hills.

Transfer of kinetic energy from particle to particle is a random process, and whilst the majority of outcomes are similar to what we observe, a minute number of these interactions come out with different and sometimes EXTREMELY different effects to what we're used to, insofar as they appear opposite. It's like a car being pushed uphill in a hailstorm by the driver simply applying the brakes over and over, or putting a kettle on the stove only for the water inside to get colder.

EDIT: I also agree with the optical illusion thing after watching that video. The whole hill is downhill, it's just that one section levels out to almost completely flat, and since the rest of the hill is sloped downards and that little bit is almost level, it looks like that section is actually sloped upwards. Of course, it actually isn't, but it just looks like it.
« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2008, 04:28PM by SAIUN »
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Offline Asephx

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #18 on: Mar 20, 2008, 04:27PM »
I know nothing of this hill... but i would like to know why all of a sudden, the guy in that youtube video puts down his guitar and starts going on about this hill? If he knew he was going to talk about this hill in a youtube video, why was he playing his guitar? wouldnt he just introduce himself and what he was talking about?

I think that the magic hill has him under a spell or something!!!

Offline hrmmmm

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #19 on: Mar 20, 2008, 08:13PM »
No my mate is not high and neither was I, i thought he was kidding and that the truck would roll backwards.
   It could be an illusion or something but at the hill in question it is flat then uphill (this first uphill is where you roll up) and then it levels out then another hill, I don't know if it is able to be rolled up. I don't think it is an illusion as it is very cleary uphill.
 
No i believe him In rocky we have a part of the road going up to our mountain and its called dead man gully. You stop in the middle of it turn off your engine handbrake off and leave it in neutral and you will get pushed up a hill a far distance

In Kurrajong Heights in NSW, there is is another hill like this hill in Gatton, it is called magnetic mountain.


I have to say I didn't think this would get as many respnses as it has.
I am going back with dad to investigate further and we are going to find out how much weight it can pull uphill.... i.e dads fully loaded b double.

A cruise out to the hill would be possible, I don't know what else is out here though, i will look into it, there's lots of twisty roads, however they are regulary patrolled by the police.

Offline JelloBello

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #20 on: Mar 20, 2008, 08:21PM »
I am going back with dad to investigate further and we are going to find out how much weight it can pull uphill.... i.e dads fully loaded b double.

I think you mean to say "the gravitational force of the earth can pull down a hill"
« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2008, 08:30PM by JelloBello »
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Offline weasel

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #21 on: Mar 20, 2008, 11:01PM »
it is a physical impossibility for a vehicle to roll uphill unaided, barring freak occurrences of nature, i.e. hurricane force winds, earthquakes, blah blah blah

the mass of a vehicle added to the force of gravity (mass of the planet)  will always pull your car downhill, for a mass to pull your vehicle toward it, it would have to have a mass greater than the earth, and if it did the rest of the earth would also be attracted to it, meaning it would be at the centre of the earth, which is why at the centre of the earth is a great big ball of molten iron, being the most dense part of our planet.

for those of you who think it's magnetic, even though a magnetic force strong enough to pull a vehicle uphill would cause havoc with all different types of technology, take a compass there and find out where north is, if there is sufficient magnetic attraction north will point "UP" the hill (doesn't necessarily work if that way actually is north :P)

if you don't believe it actually is downhill, take a spirit level, not some pissy 300mm one like the guy in the video but a 1200mm or longer, if not do some GPS readings like some others have suggested, or get some surveyors equipment like a dumpy level and stick and measure the gradient, or at the very least take a glass and fill it with water and see how the water lines up with the top of the glass, take a plumb bob (preferably not made of metal so that there is no confusion with magnetism) and see how that hangs

there are many many things you can do so you can realise that your aren't actually going uphill
« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2008, 11:06PM by weasel »
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #22 on: Mar 21, 2008, 01:42AM »
The fact that gravity is not constant over the surface of the earth is used to locate oil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravimeter

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A gravimeter or gravitometer, is an instrument used in gravimetry for measuring the local gravitational field. A gravimeter is a type of accelerometer, except that gravimeters are susceptible to all vibrations including noise, that cause oscillatory accelerations. This is counteracted by integral vibration isolation and signal processing. Though the essential principle of design is the same as in accelerometers, gravimeters are typically designed to be much more sensitive than accelerometers in order to measure very tiny changes within the Earth's gravity, of 1 g).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocarbon_exploration#Exploration_methods

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However, most exploration depends on highly sophisticated technology to detect and determine the extent of these deposits. Areas thought to contain hydrocarbons are initially subjected to a gravity survey or magnetic survey to detect large scale features of the sub-surface geology.]However, most exploration depends on highly sophisticated technology to detect and determine the extent of these deposits. Areas thought to contain hydrocarbons are initially subjected to a gravity survey or magnetic survey to detect large scale features of the sub-surface geology.

If you have this instrument pass over rock then oil then rock, it will tend to tilt toward the rock it passed until it reaches the halfway point of the oil deposit, then it will tilt toward the rock on the other side, because the gravity from either side is higher because there is more dense matter there.

In short, gravity doesn't pull to the centre of the earth.  It pulls from all points of matter.

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #23 on: Mar 21, 2008, 01:53AM »
The Earth is flat, you tools.  ;)
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Offline JelloBello

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #24 on: Mar 21, 2008, 09:19AM »
The fact that gravity is not constant over the surface of the earth is used to locate oil.

If you have this instrument pass over rock then oil then rock, it will tend to tilt toward the rock it passed until it reaches the halfway point of the oil deposit, then it will tilt toward the rock on the other side, because the gravity from either side is higher because there is more dense matter there.

In short, gravity doesn't pull to the centre of the earth.  It pulls from all points of matter.

Okay, but we're talking about a huge truck here... not a needle on a sensitive purpose designed scientific instrument. The sheer mass of the Earth and everyones relatively very close proximity to it's center of mass makes the minute changes in gravitational pull you are talking about negligible in the grand scheme of this thread, pulling a truck up a hill.
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #25 on: Mar 21, 2008, 03:01PM »
The force on the truck from the earth is the same as the force on the earth from the truck.  Size is irrelevant when considering whether it could move (if you exclude the fact that friction etc is increased on larger items), because the more mass you have, the more force it experiences.
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #26 on: Mar 21, 2008, 09:30PM »
all thats left to say is PROVE IT

forget all this theory crap, i want physical proof, undeniable proof, prove to me that it is actually uphill and that the car is rolling uphill

photos aren't good enough, they can be doctored

video proof is required, no cuts no edits.

as Hermes once put it,  I'm from Jamaica, the show-me island. So show me you're blowing it out your fanny.
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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #27 on: Mar 22, 2008, 01:13AM »
I call that the crap truck has pulled in and dumped on all ya'll. But then again I don't know much about physics

all thats left to say is PROVE IT

forget all this theory crap, i want physical proof, undeniable proof, prove to me that it is actually uphill and that the car is rolling uphill

photos aren't good enough, they can be doctored

video proof is required, no cuts no edits.

as Hermes once put it,  I'm from Jamaica, the show-me island. So show me you're blowing it out your fanny.

I'm with this bloke.

Offline hrmmmm

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #28 on: Mar 22, 2008, 07:26PM »
You want proof..........I will give you proof, when I go out there in the truck next week I will take video on my phone and try to upload it to the pc, if not I will send it to a member who can. 

I am going out there in the car, I will take video of this as well, and then if some members are still not convinced i shall organise a cruise.


Offline JelloBello

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Re: Rolling UPHILL
« Reply #29 on: Mar 22, 2008, 07:35PM »
The force on the truck from the earth is the same as the force on the earth from the truck.  Size is irrelevant when considering whether it could move (if you exclude the fact that friction etc is increased on larger items), because the more mass you have, the more force it experiences.

ahh my bad narxy, I Just re-read what you posted before... for some reason i thought you were suggesting that there was a giant naturally occouring magnet at the top of the hill that was overcoming the force of gravity (and friction) to pull the truck up the hill :) My bad.
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