Author Topic: bang for ya buck  (Read 8617 times)

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Offline trxdave

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bang for ya buck
« on: Apr 26, 2010, 06:12PM »
hi guys
           name's dave I'm new to antrx but I'm very impressed with the site and all the info you can find.
now I've had my trx for a quite awhile now and i haven't really done much to it. apart from a few years age i done a full rebuild on the ka24e. i mean every thing from the bottom to the top (new pistons etc).
my question is I've been reading alot about people doing the sr20 conversion and some people doing the ka24e-t beef up i wanna know what is actually the better way to go dollar wise for the full conversion and difficulty.
as I'm considering doing one of the 2
fare enough the standard ka24e is no power house, I've got a bit more out of it due to the rebuild and going 40 thou over, shaved head and cam grind, i had to do the rebuild as my brother thought he would a nice thing and do a service and left the radiator cap off asshole       anyway
but now its not enough. the car is in great cond apart from a bit of paint.

i just wanna know what everyone's opinion is on this matter
cheers dave




Offline rathies

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #1 on: Apr 26, 2010, 10:34PM »
ka24DE swap from a u13 would be fun, you can pick up a bluebird for $500 if you look hard enough. If you do the sr conversion it is possible but pricey.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #2 on: Apr 26, 2010, 11:58PM »
go 91mm build.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline trxdave

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #3 on: Apr 27, 2010, 10:45AM »
CALL ME A NEWBIE BUT WHAT IS A 91MM BUILD AND WHAT SOUGHT OF  DIFFICULTY IS IT SWAPPING FOR A KA24DE AND CAN IT BECOME A KA24DE-T
JUST LOOOKING AT ALL OPTIONS

CHEERS DAVE

Offline FuzzyDropbear

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #4 on: Apr 27, 2010, 10:54AM »
CALL ME A NEWBIE BUT WHAT IS A 91MM BUILD AND WHAT SOUGHT OF  DIFFICULTY IS IT SWAPPING FOR A KA24DE AND CAN IT BECOME A KA24DE-T
JUST LOOOKING AT ALL OPTIONS

CHEERS DAVE

Search button is your friend  ;) Have a look at SleepaTi's project thread, he's done the ka24det conversion.
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2010, 10:56AM by FuzzyDropbear »
Datsun boys, we like 'em fast, so we drop 'em low, heavy on the gas!

Offline chr1S

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #5 on: Apr 27, 2010, 11:07AM »
You can put the DE - dual cam engine in as there is slightly more support for it in terms of cams, headwork, etc.

By 91mm build, I meant, a bore of 91mm.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SSS

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #6 on: Apr 28, 2010, 12:06PM »
Biggest bang for your buck would be SR20DET swap.

Nothing is available off the shelf in terms of turbo stuff for SOHC KA's, plenty available with minor mods for KA24DE's.

Personally I would keep it NA and run the DE head on the SOHC block for 10.5:1 compression, run some big cams and ITB's, and retune it for E85. easily over 140kw at the wheels.

Offline trxdave

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #7 on: Apr 28, 2010, 03:10PM »
HEY SSS WHAT KIND OF MODS WOULD I HAVE TO DO TO CHUCK ON A DE HEAD
BTW WHAT DO U MEAN BY RETUNE TO E85
« Last Edit: Apr 28, 2010, 03:11PM by trxdave »

Offline chr1S

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #8 on: Apr 28, 2010, 11:45PM »
E85 is a type of fuel.

85% Ethanol.
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

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to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SleepaTi

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #9 on: Apr 29, 2010, 10:29PM »
ignore the "every 1 out of 2 antrx'er has one' SR suggestion :P

buy a ka24de from the wreckers & start from there, basic mods will demolish an sr

u12 gearbox, clutch, driveshafts & engine mounts all bolt up in the same spot

the only "sr" part you need is injectors
NO! it's NOT a fucking SR20!!

Offline Kranzy

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #10 on: Apr 29, 2010, 10:59PM »
I'm sorry but basic mods on a ka24de will not demolish an sr if your refering to power. Bang for buck then yes depending on what outcome your after.
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Offline Luke

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #11 on: Apr 29, 2010, 11:34PM »
Hi TRXDAVE,

for not much more (or maybe less even) you could probably go out and buy yourself a U12 Attesa. No point going through all the trouble of trying to extract power from a non turbo front wheel drive car, when there is exactly the same car that already has the power you want, but with AWD, just makes no sense.
Jason reffering to the OzVR4 Forum... "Even their forum is slow" "FJ20.com on the other hand, yep that S12 does Mono's"

Offline KA24ET

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #12 on: Apr 30, 2010, 11:39PM »
Hmm
I have a 190kw FWD kaT and its nothing but a nightmare! We did manage 202.1 on one tune but clutch failed on dyno, 490nm of torque
so its safe now sort of but a bloody nightmare
Going to sell it, if some fool will buy it!

Broken so far
Gearbox
driveshafts
2 clutchs
more engine mounts than i can buy
Ripped the front engine mount bots completely out of the cross member


I'd suggest the less savage NA option.
Forget the SR option, for the money to do the conversion, spend a quarter of that on your existing engine and youd be surprised how well they go!
Car can not handle it, cars 180kw+ that are FWD are nightmares!!!
Mines dead set impossible in the rain...


Offline SleepaTi

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #13 on: May 1, 2010, 12:11AM »
ha KA24ET i feel your pain, no matter what gear i'm in it just creeps
on the boost at 3k & bounces off the limiter in the wet at half pedal

only thing with mine damage wise is it's ripped out the long bolt out of the l/h
g'box mount stripping the thread making me have to swap over housings but that's the only issue so far

but yeah trxdave better option is keep your pinty as a daily & spend the $ on something REAR wheel drive
i'm ditching mine & replacing it with a beemer & doing an ls6+powerglide conversion
NO! it's NOT a fucking SR20!!

Offline KA24ET

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #14 on: May 1, 2010, 12:02PM »
I'v given up completely... I car pool to work if its wet..
I'v never had an engine issue, the mongrels are bullet proof!
But the U12 is not engineered for big HP... and realistically.. 190ish Kw is nothing....
If its failing now, chassis wise, i see not reason to push 250kw, which is what i wanted.. smoke some of the SR boys..
As it stands.. Its not viable with out some serious chassis work, and thats just to damn costly
Upsetting but a reality

Offline SSS

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #15 on: May 1, 2010, 12:19PM »
Can I ask what size and brand of tire you are both using?

Offline SleepaTi

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #16 on: May 1, 2010, 12:29PM »
225/45/17 kumho KU31's it's the biggest i can fit without major scrubbage
NO! it's NOT a fucking SR20!!

Offline chr1S

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #17 on: May 1, 2010, 04:00PM »
lol @ u12 not being engineered for power.

If you set the car up right to handle the power you won't have a problem. Let me guess, the front bolts for the cross member have been threaded before by some 7/11 mechanic who changed the previous engine mounts?..

I'd be damn proud to say my 3 cylinder makes 490nm of torque !
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline KA24ET

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #18 on: May 1, 2010, 09:24PM »
as i clearly stated with out chassis work it wont hold up
Show me a dyno of your 3 cyl pulling 490nm
I have built cars for around 15yrs
I know a few things
Needless to say comment about crossmember bolts being threaded are very constructive, we over engineered a solution, so the engine ripped the crossmember out next
So, ur comment ...
I'll take that under serious consideration
But in case it was a grey area, i'll show a picture... Cross threaded ah? More like ripped straight out

I'll grab some of the engine mount shortly

Anyone near 200kw is going to have engine mount driveline issues..... Solid mounts or even stiffer  mounts only move the problem.
Its a $$$$ thing to remedy

As for wheels I have 215 35 r18's, Nankangs,


Offline SSS

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #19 on: May 1, 2010, 10:09PM »
Mate, I hope you don't take any offence, but with shit tires, how can you hope to put the power down?

In all seriousness, what did you pay for those nankangs? $600-700 fitted?

I bought a set of Yokohama Parada Spec 2's in 215/40/17's from tirerack.com, even after customs duty / gst / shipping costs they set me back $700 fitted. Previously some BFG G force sports set me back $1200 bought locally, and they are no where near as good as the Yokos on the car at the moment.

Re the front of the cross member pulling out of the front rail....you would not have that problem obviously if the corrosion is not there. Otherwise, it's not difficult to fit reinforcement straps or fabricate a stronger cross member and attachment points. The damage you have pictured is not that difficult to fix (well, not for me anyway).

Spend the money on rubber. Fit a decent boost controller that has gear / speed based boost control.
You'll be suprised how much better it will be to drive.

Offline KA24ET

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #20 on: May 1, 2010, 10:20PM »
There is no corrosion
Its surface rust as the car sits in my driveway
Like i said, Bandaids. I have been building cars a long time,
and as i said it can be done but its all costly isnt it? In time or money.
Ok, i have a workshop to use, but most dont
Albeit some can do the work themselves. some need pay for it!
this whole thread was about bang for your buck,
and like i previously stated, IMO NA mods would be a better option!

Agreed on the tyres, but Wet or dry it fries so cheap was what i got, they dont last long either way
Gosh no. like 120 a tire dude!! I wouldn recommend Nankangs to anyone, terrible!

Car runs Eboost 2 Through a Morris tech ecu. 5.7psi in 1st gear 10psi in second. Never fiddled with restricting 3rd yet, seems to pull more than spin by then.
Its just a toy im giving to my wife, was a spur of moment thing, i'll stick to my other cars.LOL






Offline SleepaTi

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #21 on: May 1, 2010, 10:52PM »
trxdave better option is keep your pinty as a daily & spend the $ on something REAR wheel drive
NO! it's NOT a fucking SR20!!

Offline KA24ET

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #22 on: May 2, 2010, 08:46AM »
Yeah i guess thats a better option if he didnt already have the vehicle
But for the TRX he has... avoid boosting..LOL Unless u got patience and a good budget

Tons of bargain RWD cars for sameish money

Celica
Sprinter
Silvia

just to mention a few

Offline Colby

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #23 on: May 2, 2010, 10:43AM »
Tons of bargain RWD cars for sameish money

Celica
Sprinter
Silvia

just to mention a few

Are there any with four doors?
Honda boys seem to be doing fine with just FWD...
Surely bang for your buck is going to be a bit of trade off.  If you want massive bang, its going to be a bit harder to drive daily.  For the average person it's alot of bucks and more importantly alot of time.


Offline Habibosaurus

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #24 on: May 2, 2010, 04:36PM »
I'm sorry.. I'm still looking at this..  :o

490nm of torque

Honda boys seem to be doing fine with just FWD...

I'd say though most of those are lightweight/close ratio beasts.

I too am still deciding which way to go..  :(

Ill fight you. May even throw a bar of soap your way. Maybe a few wax strips and some clip on brembo brake calipers for your fooly sic civic.

Offline chr1S

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #25 on: May 2, 2010, 05:48PM »
I did a typo there, I meant 4 cylinder and in the context of your own car... if my car was a 4 cylinder with 490nm I wouldn't be hating on it, that's just good!

I still don't see what your whinging about? For us honda boys as someone mentioned, we have things such as traction bars, reinforcement bars, etc.. you would be an idiot to not brace a car up with big power, S13 engine bays tear to pieces with coilovers ffs! Stop being a bitch thinking the U12 is crap, EVERY japanese car out there will tear, rip to sheds when you put an insane amount of stress on it, as I said earlier, 490nm of torque is fucking crazy!

Pull the engine out, seam weld the front area, brace up the area where the bolts are and you will be fine.

Just food for thought though.. I thought the KA's lean to the rear when under load? Hence trying to rip the engine mount up and out not down and out, so why in your picture of your subframe tearing at the front it has failed from falling out the bottom?
Don't let the opinions of the average man sway you. Dream, and he thinks you're crazy. Succeed, and he thinks you're lucky. Acquire wealth, and he thinks you're greedy. Pay no attention. He simply doesn't understand.

Quote
to be fair, it wouldn't be ANTRX if we stayed on topic.

and if someone wasn't cranky at Chr1s for something he said...

Offline SSS

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #26 on: May 2, 2010, 07:40PM »
There is no corrosion
Its surface rust as the car sits in my driveway

Corrosion = rust

I can see from the pictures that it has fractured because of the rust permeating right through the thickness of the front rail.

Offline pedro666

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #27 on: May 3, 2010, 01:25AM »
might even need some solid mounts...
the words "race car" spelled backward still spell "race car"? 




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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #28 on: May 3, 2010, 02:04PM »
You guys have to remember, that you've more than doubled the power and torque output of the car over factory. If you don't prep the chassis for the power increase, of course you're going to run into problems.

It's just as the old saying goes 'speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?'

As far as bang for your buck, you could always run a smaller turbo while you save up to prep the chassis for more power. But just remember the torque steer will always be there, which isn't a problem as long as you know how to drive with it and are prepared to put up with it.
Datsun boys, we like 'em fast, so we drop 'em low, heavy on the gas!

Offline Budgie

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Re: bang for ya buck
« Reply #29 on: May 3, 2010, 02:15PM »
Well said fuzzy.
dont piss me off with your pillarless shit captain snappy wrist