Author Topic: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?  (Read 10969 times)

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Offline Febrile

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: Jun 20, 2007, 03:51AM »
noss: my car may be 20 years old and inefficient, but: I go through a tank of petrol a month, and have done so for a long while.  The carbon cost embodied in the production of a new car would overwhelm the benefit from reduced emissions, driving at this rate (not to mention all the chemicals and shit involved in the production of a new car).  So ner!  Rest assured, once I'm earning more than $20k a year, I shall look into buying a low/no-emissions vehicle.

SAIUN: Your religion analogy is nice, but my point is that it's not just Hell for yourself you might prevent, but Hell for other people who are experiencing it right now.  For example, countless villages around the world living in climatologically fragile areas might be saved from destruction in the near future if we all do our part.  So sure, it's a maybe, but if it's right, the reward is not imaginary, unlike Heaven and Hell.

bogan bob: Humans are actually the only species on the planet which doesn't adapt.  Adapting is where a creature grows more hair in response to a colder temperature. Humans change the temperature, by warming up our homes etc.  We have mastered the planet not because we adapt to our environment, but because we change the environment to suit us.

I don't understand why people don't consider global warming more seriously given that if the most extreme results turn out to be true, then we really are screwed.  I mean, it boils down to people not worrying about it because they perceive the risk as tiny, even though the potential losses are huge.  But the worst thing is that people act this way even though the personal cost to them of positive response is minimal.

This page: http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462 is New Scientist's "Guide to the Perplexed" for climate change, and it gives detailed responses to 26 common misconceptions about ideas surrounding global warming and climate change.  Some of you might like to visit to see what it says for specific criticisms you may have.
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Offline chr1S

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: Jun 20, 2007, 09:08AM »
in my opinion,

we can all help by working on emission efficient cars, but it will never get to what it's hyped up to be, and no-one wants an electric car. there is far too much profit in the fuel and oil industry at the moment to keep it rolling.

everytime a new patent is brought out for a fuel cell car, or something along those lines, the oil company comes along and goes snap, i'll buy that off you and never release it so they keep on making the money. when time comes to seriously bring in a car, they'll sell it off to toyota, nissan, whoever.

either way, i beleive it's a natural "staging" of the earth and there isn't f all we can do about it, the things made in the future that damaged the ozone and all that, wouldn't get us to where we are today.

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Offline slim

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: Jun 20, 2007, 03:08PM »

bogan bob: Humans are actually the only species on the planet which doesn't adapt.  Adapting is where a creature grows more hair in response to a colder temperature. Humans change the temperature, by warming up our homes etc.  We have mastered the planet not because we adapt to our environment, but because we change the environment to suit us.


Sorry but anyone can tell you humans have adapted to survive.
There are microgenetics differences between humans who have lived in areas,locations for years.
The africans have dark skin tone as to prevent sunburn and help survive in the desert.
And the aboriginal population. hope no one is offended
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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #33 on: Jun 20, 2007, 10:25PM »
I don't understand why people don't consider global warming more seriously given that if the most extreme results turn out to be true, then we really are screwed.  I mean, it boils down to people not worrying about it because they perceive the risk as tiny, even though the potential losses are huge.  But the worst thing is that people act this way even though the personal cost to them of positive response is minimal.

because people would freak out and over react. In a car accident there is a chance the cars could explode due to fuel leaks, but they dont clear people 100 metres away just in case. They dont keep gas supply cylenders in a 500 metre radius clear zone incase someone screws up and they explode. it is a perception of risk, yes there is a chance of the worst case scenario occuring, but the worst case scenario is a such a small chance that it is not really worth preparing for because it would be overkill.

everytime a new patent is brought out for a fuel cell car, or something along those lines, the oil company comes along and goes snap, i'll buy that off you and never release it so they keep on making the money. when time comes to seriously bring in a car, they'll sell it off to toyota, nissan, whoever.

Patents only last 20 years, so these technologies will be on the market, but the market will be 20 years behind, but that would stil be an improvement. At that stage, the technology is free to anyone to use and should result in much more rapid development and cheaper products as royalties dont have to be paid

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Offline Febrile

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: Jun 21, 2007, 01:06AM »
Sorry but anyone can tell you humans have adapted to survive.
There are microgenetics differences between humans who have lived in areas,locations for years.
The africans have dark skin tone as to prevent sunburn and help survive in the desert.
And the aboriginal population. hope no one is offended

That's evolution.  Adapting is growing a winter coat of fur, or hibernating for the winter. 
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Offline Jono

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: Jun 22, 2007, 09:24PM »
I don't have a haircut 'til spring, does that mean I have adapted to winter?
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Offline phantom

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: Jun 22, 2007, 11:00PM »
i have put a lot of thought into this post.
Shit Happens.
If the human population has caused global warming...we have been doing so for the past 100 odd years and we have gone too far to reverse it.....all the solutions are planned over the next 20+ years and if this theory is correct, we are in trouble.

If this is just one of the Earths phases, then there is shit all that we can do to change it and so we will just have to go with it.

But it could also be a combination of both, which could be far worse, because if this phase occurs every few hundred+  years, and the fact that we have dramatically increased pollution over the last 100 years, the earth will not have seen anything like it.

So there is not much we can do either way, I do think we can/could have cared for the Earth a lot better, but these solutions are too late

that is all...

Offline dave-trx

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #37 on: Jun 23, 2007, 01:09AM »
Global warming. I dont think so, where I am its getting colder more then anything else. Give me 30-40 degree's any day.
Your car may be able to go faster.
But I can go any where. except into a garage, underground carpark, bridge...

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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #38 on: Jun 23, 2007, 06:06PM »
I would include adapting your environment to suit yourself a form of adaptation, it doesnt have to be a physical change to your body or something. When it is hot, cereal crops take up and respire more water and cause a reduction in the canopy temperature of a couple of degrees, often making the difference between plant survival and death.

The other thing is global temperatures have only recently started rising (in say the last 30 years) where as the industrial revolution, a major cause of the elevated atmospheric CO2, started in the 1900s, so there is no real correlation between temps rising and co2 concentrations.



Narxysus are you ok mate? Its seems from time to time these posts on controversial topics pop up, especially this one, where you ask for peoples thoughts/opinions then proceed to shoot them down and try and convince everyone that your, already formed and seemingly impenetrable opinion, is the only way to see things. That time of month or something, is it  :D?

Not bagging your attempts at getting some talk going but chill out a bit, you need to look at you info sources and consider some of their motives, im sure the facts on global warming presented by greenpeace would be quite different to those from an oil company, for example. Not everything on the net can be accepted as fact (although many people seem to think it can be).

ah sorry for the dribble  :-\

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Offline SAIUN

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #39 on: Jun 23, 2007, 07:07PM »
So so tempted to start a topic on the Moon landing right now...  :D
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Offline Febrile

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #40 on: Jun 24, 2007, 06:05AM »
I guess I post these topics hoping to find someone who agrees with me, and I am then subsequently dismayed and frustrated that no-one has a viewpoint even remotely similar.

I dislike appealing to conspiracy theories, which is one reason I may come across as overbearing.  At the end of the day, we all need to do our part and realise that we make up a bigger picture - it's no good not believing in something just because you think someone might be misguiding you.  Believe in what seems right to you (particularly if the consequences of disbelief and inaction far outweigh the benefits of those things) until you can prove what you should believe.

With global warming - sure, it's in the media a lot at the moment and maybe there are groups with a vested interest in it.  But even if this is the case, they are talking about the future of the planet and humanity, so it's pretty important stuff, and unlike some people in this thread I haven't given up on the idea that I can make a difference.  Sure, my contribution may be small, but I can change the world for the better by considering the consequences of my actions and choices.

If we all did the same, I like to think that our collective action could dramatically improve the situation which we find ourselves in, and which we are putting future generations in.

Edit: Actually, thinking on it some more, I guess I am trying to change people's opinions to mine.  But surely you can see why in this case.  I'm advocating people change their lifestyles to be less consumptive and dependent on resources, and it is likely this will benefit the planet too.  I personally have nothing to gain from it, and those I am trying to convince have little to lose by it, and yet our combined efforts will add up to a bigger whole.  I don't understand why people don't see this.  If you folk would like to offer some reasons why you personally are unwilling to believe the potential effects of global warming, and why you are unwilling to take steps to lead a less resource-dependent lifestyle, then I'm all ears.
« Last Edit: Jun 24, 2007, 06:20AM by Narxysus »
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Offline eurisko

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #41 on: Jun 25, 2007, 11:13AM »
Look. Its the same problem that plagues things such as Socialism and whatnot.

In therory, if everyone does their part, everyone will be living it up happy happy joy joy styles. Unfortunately, the world works in a completely different way. The majority will always look out for oneselves.. not the greater community.

The changes need to occur from the upper levels... then they will filter down to the community.

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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: Jun 25, 2007, 09:10PM »
yep well said. but at the same time, i think people need to be educated in the matter, what the concerns are, what the myths are etc, so they can form their own opinion on the matter not just be force fed information by biased sources such as greenpeace and other such 'businesses'.

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Offline Febrile

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #43 on: Jun 25, 2007, 09:21PM »
The changes need to occur from the upper levels... then they will filter down to the community.

What? When does anything notable happen because the minority decide it's time? Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't democracy founded on the ideal of collective representation via elected representatives?  As in, the people dictate to the government, not the other way around?

I see a similarity between your statement and an implicit recognition of totalitarian rule.

And even if you say "the majority always look out for themselves" - then why not believe that the size of that majority can be reduced by one for each person who makes a better choice with the planet in mind? 

It doesn't take many - consider your local supermarket.  It would take less than 50 people switching to some greener product before the shop would have to start designating more shelf space, and ordering higher volumes.  When that happens, more money flows to the producer of that product, and they can expand their production, and perhaps their marketing budgets so they can compete (in the advertising domain) with less environmentally aware products.  When this happens, more people are exposed to the green product, and more people will begin to switch, and so the cycle continues, until everyone buys that product, or something like it, instead of a less green one. 

So if it only takes a few people, why believe that someone else should be responsible for action?  Why not start with yourself?
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Offline bogan_bob

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: Jun 28, 2007, 11:03PM »
i·de·al·ism(i-d-lzm)
n.
1. The act or practice of envisioning things in an ideal form.
2. Pursuit of one's ideals.

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Offline Febrile

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #45 on: Jun 30, 2007, 08:42PM »
i·de·al·ism(i-d-lzm)
n.
1. The act or practice of envisioning things in an ideal form.
2. Pursuit of one's ideals.

But it's not idealism!  My arguments here are based on the fundamental fact that many small changes add up to one larger change.  People and society doesn't need to radically conform to some ideal state - instead, small steps in the right direction are what I advocate.  It's not an ideal state of affairs, but it's a better one.
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Offline wicked

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Re: Global warming, peak oil, sustainability, etc: your thoughts?
« Reply #46 on: Jul 12, 2007, 09:01AM »
Sorry to open the can of worms again, but "The great global warming swindle" in on tonight on ABC at 8.30pm (Brisbane).

http://www.ourbrisbane.com/whatson/tv/tonight

Oh, forum/debate too. :)
http://www2b.abc.net.au/tmb/Client/Board.aspx?b=89
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2007, 11:09AM by wicked »